We now need 12 players in 2 days

We are down to 8 more players! Come join the fun!

I just read the pre-game press. Racist insults, real-life friends, PPSC -- sounds *so* tempting.

a. If people want to be rude, then we can tell the mods. Otherwise, we can't control people's actions.
b. It's anon, so the "friends" part can't affect this game.
c. What do you have against PPSC?

Hi DogsRule, and welcome to the site. Perhaps after some time here you'll come to understand the concerns Map has noted. He and and many others of us are fans of the WW4 maps. Much like him I was tempted to have a look at this game until I looked closer and saw it was PPSC, so I passed. After Mapu's comments I glanced at the pre-game press and thanked my lucky stars that I didn't relent give it a try. My thoughts are:

a. We can best avoid juvenile behavior, gratuitous racism, and needless political diatribes by avoiding games that seek to create or dwell in the drama of it. Mapu isn't trying to have the game banned. He's noting that serious Dip players may want to avoid this train wreck. No need to involve the moderators. Self policing by avoidance is much more effective.
b. Apparently you've not played in enough games to see the potential for abuse of anonymity in such a contest. It screams stay miles away to me.
c. PPSC is not Diplomacy, which is by it's very nature WTA. PPSC strips away the very essence and objective of the game, and makes it about the arbitrary points. These game frequently see players throw/dump solos and otherwise modify their play for the purposes of obtaining unearned points. The only way a PPSC concept could really work is within a draw result of a WTA game.

Look, RUFFHAUS, I get your point, but this was just supposed to be a fun, large game on a map *where no one has soloed*. Criticize the racists and how I set up the game if you want, but at the end of the day, I just wanted to play a map that is not often used, and have fun with it. I certainly did not expect what people would say on the chat. If you have any suggestions for how to start a good WWIV game, by all means, I'd love to hear them.

For example: WTA, gunboat, not-anon, betsize 20, 2-day phases?

That would be a hell of a GB, lol. Fun though.

Guys please stop leaving this game we now need 12 players in 1.75 days

I really shouldn't have piled on in criticizing the game in your recruiting thread. I apologize.

Why do people like gunboat so much? I feel like it goes as much against the soul of Diplomacy as PPSC. I mean really? No talking in a game about negotiation? Sure you can send mini messages through builds and support holds and the like, but I don't find the fun in it.

It's certainly not for everyone, but I enjoy the challenge quite a bit. It allows me to play in more games simultaneously since no press is needed. I usually like to be in 3-4 press games, and use 2-3 gunboats to kill time and work on my skill as a player.

8 players in 1.25 days. Let's go people!

The mods will extend the join time if you ask.

Thanks for reminding me!

6 more players to go

Now 5.

Now 2

I don't get the anti-ppsc snobbery. If you don't like it fine and well, but what's the point of pretending it's not "real" diplomacy? Diplomacy is a strategy board game, and every strategy board game I've ever played is loaded with people making emotionally driven choices. People in face to face play throw games all the time for a variety of reasons - most often "I'm pissed because you stabbed me" but also "I'd rather be second place than share a 5-way draw" or, "you're hot and you fluttered your eyelashes at me" (I played Dip in high school with girls, including the one I married). And further, Diplomacy purports to simulate international relations, which are all-too-often driven by such considerations as "you blasphemed our prophet" or "your skin is brown". So how is one variant or point system objectively more pure than any other? Take the hot chick and the point-monger into your strategic consideration and enjoy the GAME.

Yea I don't get the anti-ppsc snobbery either. A lot of my in-person games ended in ties because they were dragging on too long. some of them ended early for mutual respect for how the others played. It is called Diplomacy anyways not conquest

Even with PPSC, it would still be incredibly fun to score the first solo victory on this map (or even less than 5 players in a draw). Not to mention, the bet is only 10 tokens to join, so it's not like your rating will change too much.

If you don't understand the objections to PPSC, then you probably don't understand the game. As evidenced by your posts, you guys clearly do not. The is no such thing as second place in Diplomacy. You either win, lose, or draw equally with all partners. I understand that players frequently throw games after a stab, or for slights, and even for eye rolls, or for a variety of other reasons. The difference in Diplomacy is that if you throw a solo, you lose like everyone else. Rewarding any player with points for allowing a solo against them is contrary to the objective of the game. It's no longer Diplomacy at that point. The PPSC set up not only offers that, it encourages it. Maybe it's because we live in the everyone gets a trophy era now. It's not snobbery or elitism. It's fundamental mechanics of the game.

There's no objection to draws. Draws are perfectly acceptable results, mutually agreed to among all surviving players. The game played correctly is intended to encourage draws as an alternative to losing, while the novelty of victory is meant to tempt players to risk it all. Thrown solos for reason such as second place loser points cheapen the accomplishments of earned solos.

PPSC is for those unwilling to stab and go for the win. Sorry, I play WTA. It's the only way to play. It's as close to the way the game was originally designed as we come with a points system. Of course, unrated is the truest version of the game.

Agreed, and this is an old debate. If you are going to compete for points then WTA is really the only option for all the reasons Ruff mentioned earlier. I should mention here that point gathering is kind of superfluous on this site as the HoF works on vPoints not buy-in, cop-out points... As well as note that YCHTTs statement regarding unrated... well it is really the purest form of Diplomacy, unless you are on an internet gaming site and think that ratings somehow mean anything (looking at you Amby)... :)

For the old timers here please consider this a chance to 'educate' some of our more recent arrivals as to the pitfalls of falling into the carebear trap... I reckon this discussion erupts approx. every 12 months or so, give or take. It's about time to offer the forum a refresher.

I play PPSC because draws in anything short of "this is an extant stalemate line, the game is literally pointless to continue" are an anathema, and anything that can encourage people to keep playing rather than settling for such rubbish is a good thing.

If you've never seen two guys go from fists to flowers when a solo threat emerges, then you're simply missing out on what makes Diplomacy the greatest game in the world.

"The is no such thing as second place in Diplomacy." - Well said, Ricky Bobby.

I should probably say this: I don't throw games. Ever. Never have. Not even to the hot chick (she quit playing because I kept stabbing her). But I've enjoyed WTA games, and I've enjoyed PPSC games. I've enjoyed classic, and I've enjoyed variants.

Life, IMO, is just all-around more fun when you have a broader palate.

Well, for me, it's the Win/Lose/Draw/Survive percentages that matter most. With WTA, I get the purer form and with unrated the purest form so that I feel my percentages reflect my true skill. I win or draw about half the time, get defeated more than 1/3rd of the time and survive less than 1/5th of the time (I'm pretty good at spotting and poitning out the solo run before it's too late).