Messages - vDiplomacy

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16 Dec 17 UTC	Bidding: GameMaster: NMR from Persia. Send the country in CD.
17 Dec 17 UTC	Spring, 1550 BC.: GameMaster: Nuclear Surok has taken over Persia replacing "The Moran". Reconsider your alliances.
25 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: Taking nothing away from Byz's smart play but to be fair, the original persian player totally unbalanced this game by not putting in opening bids. Persia normally balances Byz and to a lesser extent, Rhodes, but he didn't put in bids, then left the replacement player with once centre. In my opnion, it has ruined this game and Byz is certain to win, especially with Sparta helping him.
26 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: yeah it's kind of a joke
26 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: Yes, I denied Macedonia and Rhodes the ability encircle me. And maybe that has given the victory to Byzantium. But dont you dare to behave as you(Rhodes and Macedonia) is not part of that joke. This game is so-called ruined based on three factors. 1) Lack of moves from initial Persia, 2) arguable poor strategic choices made by yours truly, and 3) poor diplomacy by Macedonia and Rhodes. For example, Macedonia giving the SCs to Byzantium: Spring, 1548 BC.: "I'm letting Byzantium take over my SCs and going after you and you alone." This effectively ends any potential diplomatic solution. And with Rhodes declaring I am without allies, after my stab doesn't help either. Not that my socalled stab gave anything to Athens or Byzantium except breathing room. I will acknowledge my part in forcing this game into a certain path by aligning myself with Athens and Byzantium. But giving away SC and trying to bully actors into submission doesn't seem to help. But fixing the game would either require all involved player refrain from childish behavior or we all put into a draw and start all over again.
26 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: GameMaster: Persia voted for a Draw. If everyone votes Draw the game will end and the points are split equally among all the surviving players, regardless of how many supply centers each player has.
26 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: I didn't declare you without allies, I simply stated the fact. If you think Byz is an ally, you are mistaken. I proposed a truce with you in order to allow us to put some kind of block n the way of Byz as he was getting an extremely easy ride. I told you that and offered to support you into GoSalamis. You were happy to accept that help, while intending to not keep any promise to the only 2 players able to mount a combined resistance. How is that poor diplomacy? I've played this game for a very, very long time and I've often seen how smaller players squabble amongst themselves giving the obvious game leader an easy run to a solo victory. This game is WTA, Byz will not share a draw with you. By lying to us and stabbing us, you only bring about a faster victory for Byz and you will gain as much as we will from that: nothing.
26 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: You are probably right, Byz wont share a victory with me. There is no need when he given SCs for free. Time will tell. My point is that I disagree that the game was efficiently over when I made my moves in Autum 1549. Even now the game shouldn't be play as being ruined or over. My moves may be judged to be bad moves, and I will have to take notice of it. Next game I will be a bit smarter, and adjust my play. But I based the moves on the fact that this is a WTA game, and I feared Macedonia and Rhodes more than Byzantium. Im sorry if I truly ruined the game. But analyzed prospective I think I did the right moves based on the disposition of forces, but should have faired better diplomatic correspondence with Macedonia and Rhodes.
26 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: I never said you ruined the game and I never said the game is over when you stabbed us both. I also dislike you making this a public discussion - normally this kind of conversation is on private channels. I do think your moves were ultimately not in your best interests, but thats your call. I also think its ballsy to stab both your neighbours at once, thereby ensuring you have no real ally remaining in the game. (Athens is too small to count, sorry, and Byz is playing for a solo win). My previous statement I think it more accurate, that the first Persian player essentially unbalanced the game by not bidding and leaving Byz with no effective opposition. I've played Sparta on this map before and I agree that Rhodes and Mace are potential threats but right now, Byz is blitzing this game. We could have worked together to put some kind of opposition up, but that's not an option now. As you say, you'll learn from this in future games.
26 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: does wta mean draw does nothing?
26 Dec 17 UTC	Autumn, 1548 BC.: Sure, if you gain a draw it means exactly that. But to get a draw means forcing the leading player to accept a draw, ie, that he sees he has no way to achieve victory conditions. But our only chance to force him to a draw lay in combined action, and you scuttled any chance of that when you stabbed both me and Mace together. He only needs 4 more centres to take a solo win. Chances are that he would have reached that anyway, given what happened with Persia at the start, but you've certainly ensured it now.
27 Dec 17 UTC	Spring, 1547 BC.: Byz wins next turn, the fastest victory ever on this map. Not taking anything away from Byz's play, he did everything right, but this game was screwed by first Persia and then no-one standing together to prevent such a walkover.
01 Jan 18 UTC	Spring, 1545 BC.: You idiots do realise that a WTA win for one means nothing for everyone else regardless how many centres you hold, right?
03 Jan 18 UTC	See? WTA to Cometk. Congrats to him. The rest of you idiots were always working against yourselves, striving only for a "survived." I still don't get it.
03 Jan 18 UTC	Cometk did nothing wrong and took full advantage of a very lucky break. As I would have in his shoes. So well done. But Bobby, you got exactly what JW and I got... nothing at all. You stabbed us while Byz cleaned up and gave him a win in record time on this map. Dumbest play I've seen in a long time.
04 Jan 18 UTC	Our tactics might be idiotic, but we are far from idiots ourselves. Using such language is quite far from what I would expect from players of Diplomacy. This is NOT a way to fare ourselves if we want to increase the user base and help new players. We are supposed to be better than that. I more than happy to discuss tactics and strategy, and have no problem with moves being called dumb. Maybe they were, maybe not. The three of us made a strategy, and we kept to it. The diplomacy and coordination that went on was quite good from the start, but we fumbled in the end. Thank you, Cometk and lejend. This game might remain as a lessons learned for our future self and other players, even if its how not do it. Whatever grudges I held during "Greek war", stays in "Greek War".
04 Jan 18 UTC	Summery of the lessons identified: -NMR year one from one or more players have severe repercussions for the remainder of the game. Players should adapt to the new reality. -Draw must be forced for it to be a good strategy. Dialogue based draw can never be guaranteed, and is unlikely in a WTA game. -Bullying tactics makes diplomatic solutions harder, and sement a situation. -Make a strategy and keep to it is a good way to learn. But adapt tactics to the changing situations.
04 Jan 18 UTC	This variant more than any other is influenced by a first phase NMR due to the build orders. Persia put none in and had only one unit to commence. This gave Byz a massive, massive start bonus. he then correctly identified his only 2 reasonable opponents for a win - Mace and me, and came directly our way, while convincing you and Athens to support him. you are not idiots personally, I accept that, but your play defies understanding within any normal context of trying to either win or draw this game for yourself. You could not have enabled Byz any more successfully than you did. Yes, if you learned fro this that a draw must be forced, then good that you learned, but its really a newbie lesson. Of course a dominant player must be forced to accept a draw. he must see that there is no way he can defeat a united front. I've done this and been forced to accept this many times. Your stab of me and Mace was so successful because neither of us could believe you'd do such a thing and simply throw the game. That's why we were blindsided by it... it was an absurd move unless there was some ulterior motive we could not see. It simply handed the game to Byz and you got as much as we did, despite your holding more centres in the end. That means nothing at all in a WTA game/