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Heer Alvaro (1000 D)
21 Jul 21 UTC
Create a new Variant
Hi guys! In case I want to create a new variant. WHO is the person I would ask for?

THANKS!
8 replies
Open
CCR (1957 D)
19 Jul 21 UTC
Any Mod around?
Looking for you for some time now.
Touch me in Pvt or through the
ModForum ;) *grin*
4 replies
Open
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
17 Jul 21 UTC
(+1)
COLLABORATOR WANTED:
I am looking for a collaborator for a variant I am developing.
3 replies
Open
David Hood (976 D)
17 Jul 21 UTC
July 2021 Deadline News Is Out
Features a panel discussion of European players, tournament news, and a report on a college course about Diplomacy being offered at the University of the West Indies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GphP6Cyc9FQ&t=482s
0 replies
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brainbomb (662 D)
12 Jul 21 UTC
(+1)
Cross Community Mafia Event
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4 replies
Open
CrimiClown (969 D)
08 Jul 21 UTC
Change username
Hey everyone, stupid question perhaps, but can I change my username on this website? Or do I need to make a new account?

Thanks!
3 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
07 Jul 21 UTC
WW2 Game
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9 of us know each other in real life, pass is elliott.
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Caustic (827 D)
23 Jun 21 UTC
New King of England?
Can the players from europe tell me what's going on with this? Google and youtube seamed to have filtered out anything about this. Is it true?
27 replies
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Two Chaos Games!
Looking for more players for two chaos games, one of which is public press. https://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=49397
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4 replies
Open
Looking For Chaos
Hi, looking for more players for a chaos game
1 reply
Open
Aang (883 D)
20 Jun 21 UTC
Looking for someone to replace me
Hello, I recently joined a Europa Renovatio as Sweden but recently I’ve been losing interest in it and don’t really feel like playing it al that much anymore but I also don’t want to hold up the game by not putting in my orders so I was wondering if anyone would like to replace me? We’re only at around the 3rd diplomacy game and you should be able to view it by clicking on my profile
1 reply
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Fake Al (1747 D)
03 Jun 21 UTC
(+4)
Listing pronouns
One of the pitfalls of online Diplomacy I fall into is that I often don't know the genders of my fellow players and get the pronouns wrong. As far as I'm aware, the site doesn't yet have a feature for us to list the pronouns we use. Maybe we could all start listing the pronouns we use in our profile quotes to cut down on the confusion and ambiguity? I went ahead and put mine there.
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CBro27 (1453 D)
07 Jun 21 UTC
(+2)
Not sure we would. If there are only a couple people using she/her or they/them pronouns, then displaying that in an anonymous game could significantly narrow down who it might be and make it not really anonymous. Maybe not that big of a deal though.
ubercacher16 (2169 D)
07 Jun 21 UTC
(+6)
There are several logistical problems with this. Mostly anonymous games. I have no objection to pronouns being added under the username (provided opting out is allowed) for forum use and non-anon games. But I strongly object to adding it under the (anonymous) graphic that is shown on anonymous games. Simply because in certain cases this would allow everyone to narrow down the possible other players to a select few.

In the mean time referring to players by their country name, or username is a good solution. If that fails then use they/them or ask.

In addition, this doesn't have to have anything to do with the political debate related to the issue. It's merely a matter of calling people what they want to be called, whether that is a pronoun, a username, or neither.
Battalion (2386 D)
08 Jun 21 UTC
(+3)
For me it's a question of inclusivity, not clarity of communication. I want everyone who wants to play Diplomacy to feel that they are welcomed and included here.

Defaulting to using "he/him/his" can give the message that those of other genders are either out of place or outright not welcome. It's important to remember that intent isn't the issue here - it's how people reading it are made to feel.

Personally I think the best fix is simply to use "they/them/their" when talking to or about someone you don't know, and to feel empowered to (politely) correct those that don't.

Just to labour the original point, it's not about being woke, it's about making everyone feel included and welcome on VDip.
Retillion (2304 D (B))
08 Jun 21 UTC
(+2)
@ Battalion :

Inclusion is a highly political question.
And inclusion is related to wokeness, which is itself a highly political question.

Here at vdiplomacy, I was told years ago by some players and by some moderators that it was acceptable that other players use some strong and even rude language towards me or other players because it could supposedly be part of a so-called "chainsaw diplomacy". And you are now telling us, quote :
"intent isn't the issue here - it's how people reading it are made to feel."

Really ?

So, that means that a player could write here to other players "F**k you @$$#0£€, but that, at the same time, we wouldn't be allowed use the word "him" when referring to someone we don't know ?!

One more thing : when I write to someone, I use the word "you". It is only when I write about someneone that I use words like "he" or "him". And, in a Diplomacy game, when I write about someone, it is not to that person that I am writing, but to someone else.

You wrote :
"the best fix is simply to use "they/them/their" when talking to or about someone you don't know, and to feel empowered to (politely) correct those that don't."

Really ?

So for example, if I write to you a game :
"Would you please move Ukraine to Rumania supported by Budapest ?
Lets's both write to Austria in order to ask him to give you that support."

You would then feel "empowered" to politely "correct" me by writing to me :
" We don't know if Austria is a man, or a woman, or has no sex, or any other option, you should not use the pronoun "him" but the pronoun "them".

Really ?

A language is a vision of the world. By imposing your language, or by imposing the way a language should be written or spoken, you impose your vision of the world.

Which brings us back to what I wrote here a few days ago :
That question about pronouns and supposedly misgendering is highly political. I estimate that it has no place here.
ironGilligan (1474 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+2)
""Would you please move Ukraine to Rumania supported by Budapest ?
Lets's both write to Austria in order to ask him to give you that support."
You would then feel "empowered" to politely "correct" me by writing to me :
" We don't know if Austria is a man, or a woman, or has no sex, or any other option, you should not use the pronoun "him" but the pronoun "them"."

I mean, unless you believe either a.) everyone on earth uses he/him pronouns, or b.) he/him are now neutral pronouns, I don't really see why you can't just use they/them.
It seems rather hypocritical to want to impose an identity, to force someone to be something they might not be on someone, rather than use a neutral term that doesn't imply anything until they tell you. While trying to argue that people are imposing or forcing their vision of the world on you.

It brings it back to my point, this is about being more accurate for more people. Simply using the ways the English language has provided streamlined communication of abstract thoughts to other people is better than arbitrarily deciding that everyone who talks to you must be a man. If language is the "vision" of your world, then do you think everyone is a man until proven otherwise like it's some kind of felony?

I understand you think it's a political issue, but clearly not everyone here does. Some people go by some pronouns, that's fine people can do what they want. If you think that everyone is a guy, that's cool. You're allowed to think that. But you shouldn't "impose" your worldview on everyone by doing so. What most people here are saying is that it doesn't hurt anybody to take a minor step to accommodate the fact that diplomacy has people who don't use he/him pronouns for whatever reason. And common sense says that maybe we shouldn't just use one identity for referring to people. People disagree on what a minor step should be, but not a lot of people are saying we just shouldn't be talking about this. Maybe that step is just saying "Hey I use these pronouns" or including them in the name of the forum. Whatever it turns out to be, if anything at all, I don't care. But I think we should be allowed to have the talk to find out :)
Mittag (1396 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+3)
Using "they/them/their" is not political. That's just common practice and common curtesy, if you don't know the correct pronouns.

The political question is whether people should be allowed to choose their own pronouns. It's a question which is moot on an anonymous internet forum. Here, people can be whoever they want to be.
Retillion (2304 D (B))
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+1)
@ ironGilligan :

Obviously I do not think that every human is a man.
And I am certainly not saying that we shouldn't talk about this. What I said is that the question of avoiding to "misgender" people is a political question and should not be used to oblige, nor to prohibit, us from writing in a way or in another.

You wrote :
"unless you believe either a.) [...], or b.) he/him are now neutral pronouns"

Thank you for that remark !
As a matter of fact, English is not my native language and, yes, when speaking or writing English, I have always been using the pronouns "he" and "him" as neutral pronouns for humans.

I have just checked in my Harrap's English-French/French English dictionary (1984 edition) and it does not mention that the pronoun "they" is neutral. It says that it means :
1° "ils", "elles" : both are plurals ;
2° "on" : meaning nobody in particular. "On" could mean "we", or "people".

Which brings us back to the second (out of two) sentence that I wrote here in my first message in this conversation :
"What's more, you are only considering it from an English-speaking perspective."


And since we are allowed to discuss this, I would like to ask a question to every reader of this note : what is the list of pronouns among which people here will be allowed to require to be referred to ?
What about this list of pronouns :
https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

Should these pronouns be allowed, or even required, for use ?

Will this bring us to a point where we will be told :
"Never refer to a person as “it” or “he-she”. These are offensive slurs used against trans and gender non-conforming individuals."
(https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/qa_faqs/what-are-some-commonly-used-pronouns/)
ironGilligan (1474 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+2)
Obviously I was joking about you believing everyone on earth is a guy. It might be hard to tell in text but I'm not a terribly serious person.
And I don't want this to sound condescending in any way, but he/him aren't neutral pronouns. At least they haven't been since I've been to school. I don't know if you've ever tried to read English from before 1890 but it's practically a different language.
My old ass dictionary where the sleeve is falling apart has they/them being used a neutral pronoun if you don't know their gender.
As well as the language being inconsistent in the modern day, if you've ever stringed multiple things together it is both correct, and incorrect, to list them as "Blue, red, and green." AND "Blue, red and green."
You might understand this better than a native speaker, but the English language breaks it's own rules, and it a little inconsistent (as well as not intuitive)

And much like everyone else has already said. Not using a neutral term is just a little rude. I remember misgendering a teacher's cat when I was a young kid and she freaked out on me. While the "politics" you want to talk about are irrelevant to this specific conversation, I can say she doesn't have a "progressive" view on trans people or anything. Same with calling random people "him".
This isn't about what we are "allowed" to do or "required" it's simply a matter of common English courtesy in an English speaking website.
Battalion (2386 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+1)
@Retillion Intentionally misusing pronouns as part of chainsaw diplomacy is different to misusing pronouns by default across the board. In the first you're using it as a tool (and although you won't be surprised I'm not a fan I won't weigh in on whether I think that's right or wrong for fear of distracting from the main issue). In the second the speaker is potentially upsetting and alienating people just because they're too lazy, stubborn, or ignorant to make a simple change.

I commonly see pronouns assumed in global chat, in which case the person being referred to would see it. And yes, I frequently correct people who assume them.

Finally, I don't understand the obsession about whether something is political. If you take it far enough anything in the anthropocentric world is political by definition. Whether or not it's political makes no difference on the fact that a small change can have a big impact on people who are needlessly made to feel less welcome.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

I spent way too much time reading this... :D:D:D
SimonPeterWatson (1464 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+3)
In my opinion using “they” is a simple solution that can be adopted by everyone immediately - case closed. However, if we decide to make things complicated I would like to make it known I shall demand to be referred to using the pronouns it/its/itself for I consider myself an enigmatic god-like entity for the purposes of Diplomacy.
drano019 (2710 D Mod)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+1)
"Enigmatic, god-like entity" and yet, in the one game they've played with a group that looks like it wasn't a private game, they got defeated.
drano019 (2710 D Mod)
09 Jun 21 UTC
Ah damn it. Most of my reply just got cut off. I was trying to be snarky with SimonPeterWatson. I'll have to type again later.
SimonPeterWatson (1464 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+2)
Yeah I guess I’m too much Baal and not enough Yahweh :D......
SimonPeterWatson (1464 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+1)
I never claimed to be a monotheistic / king of the Gods hence the enigmatic part... consider me more of a minor god who spawned from a middling god of questionable repute
Retillion (2304 D (B))
09 Jun 21 UTC
Thank you, SimonPeterWatson, for the link that you sent to us :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

In that link, we can read :

"Prescription of generic he

Alongside they, it has historically been acceptable to use the pronoun he to refer to an indefinite person of any gender
[...]
This formulation is still sometimes used but has lost acceptability in the eyes of the public.

The earliest known explicit recommendation by a grammarian to use the generic he rather than they in formal English is Ann Fisher's mid-18th century A New Grammar assertion that "The Masculine Person answers to the general Name, which comprehends both Male and Female; as, any Person who knows what he says." (Ann Fisher as quoted by Ostade)

Nineteenth-century grammarians insisted on he as a gender-neutral pronoun on the grounds of number agreement, while rejecting "he or she" as clumsy, and this was widely adopted: e.g. in 1850, the British Parliament passed an act which provided that, when used in acts of Parliament "words importing the masculine gender shall be deemed and taken to include females".


→ Since it is gramatically correct to use the pronoun he to refer to an indefinite person of any sex in English, just like it is correct and completly usual in my native language, I will keep doing so.
Mittag (1396 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
What was grammatically correct in the nineteenth century, isn't necessarily grammatically correct anymore.
I think the shift happened between the 1960s and the 1980s.

To boldly go where no man (60s) / one (80s) has gone before...
drano019 (2710 D Mod)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+2)
Alright, so the rest of what I intended to post:

On a slightly cheeky note: Growing up in the Chicago area, the terms "you guys", "hey guys", or "what's up guys" were explicitly gender-neutral. Perhaps it's just a regional thing, but literally everyone I knew (male, female, or unknown) used it. Even groups of all girls would say "bye guys" to each other. So I find that somewhat interesting given Retillion's quote about "he" being gender-neutral in the past.


On a more serious note: I see no reason we can't make an effort on this issue. As stated before, this is a Diplomacy website, and we should strive to be welcoming to everyone so that the hobby we love continues to thrive in the online world. That's not to say that there will be an "official" policy saying everyone has to comply, but I see no reason we shouldn't all make a good-faith effort to be inclusive and welcoming when it costs us literally nothing to do so. I don't know what the coding limitations are, so I can't say if a display next to v-points is possible, but profiles are a good first step if people want to do so.

Of course, good faith has to come from all sides. If someone chooses not to make it known what they wish to be referred to, they shoudlnt' get upset if they are mis-gendered, at least, in my personal opinion. I highly doubt we'll have that issue here though given that I'm sure people have been mis-gendered tons of times in the past however many years they've been on here, and I've never heard a complaint about it.

I'm a strong supporter of uber's idea though. In-game, use country or username, on the forum, use username. Anonymous games, no listing of pronouns so as to not potentially "out" people if they are one of a few on the site that go by "she" for example.
Fake Al (1747 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
@SimonPeterWatson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVPCOvLAVUI
RUFFHAUS 8 (2490 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+3)
Retillion writes: "Since it is gramatically correct to use the pronoun he to refer to an indefinite person of any sex in English, just like it is correct and completly usual in my native language, I will keep doing so."

Nailed it. And for the record this is the position Jordan Peterson too up on this very issue. He did not refuse to acknowledge a specific person's preference, or to ridicule another person, or anything else controversial. He simply said that he intended to continue speaking the language in it's proper usage.

This entire discussion is amaazingingly obtuse. We're playing in a gaming community that is populated by 99%+ male players. That's not to suggest that there are no felmale Diplomacy players. There are some female players, and some very good ones. Some even choose to openly use their real names on the internet. Here at VDip our user namers are typically non speciffic as to sex as well as to our ral world names. Some of us know each other through years of evolving friendships, and social media contact, or even real world relationships that existed before VDiplomacy. In these cases we likely know the sex of these members, although it's never really mattered to anyone. While perhaps not 100% accurate, making a general assumption that a VDip player unknown to you is male, is not an overtly, and certainly not intentionally, hostile action. It's a reasonable action based upon the community. And until such time as a player corrects others as to their preferred sex, then it seems reasonable to continue with: 1) reasonable assumptions based on an extremely high percentage of male players here; and 2) the point Retillion made so well about the use of the he/him pronouns in a nuetral context. Drano offer another excellent suggestion by simply inserting the person's name/user name in lieu of a pronoun, specically when unsure of the appropriate sex to select said pronoun for.

Use of pronouns they/them referes to plural. Using they/them as singular is butchering the laguage to address the complexities that the woke community has foisted upon themselves by asserting that: 1) gender is a synonym for sex in the first place; and 2) that one person's freedom to identify as they wish compells others to acknowledge it.
SimonPeterWatson (1464 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+1)
I can accept that you think using they as a singular is butchering the language. It‘s still considered a faux pas in formal writing (not like I would know). That being said, I don’t believe the writing here needs to be held to so high a standard. It‘s also true that an overwhelming majority of the players are male, and using he would be right the vast majority of the time. In addition, of the small percentage of people who are „mis-pronouned“, it’s probably a small percentage of that who are the slightest bit offended. However, I do disagree with your assertion that using they as a singular pronoun is somehow bowing down to the woke community. I‘ve used it for a long time, informally of course, because using „he“ sounds strange when it could be a woman, and saying „he or she“ is cumbersome.
ironGilligan (1474 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+1)
What is the woke community and what does it have to do with this discussion? I don't know why you keep trying to push your politics on to all of us. I don't really care what some guy thinks about the English language (specifically since it's someone who isn't listed as a linguist on his wikipedia) who is popular, nor do I care about the "woke" community. If you want to have a discussion about that you can, I would suggest making a new thread about it if you do.

1.) The English language is again, like I said before, remarkably poorly structured. This is because proper English swapped out centuries ago like some kind of ship of theseus. All of us are butchering this language, don't try to act like your on some high horse for refusing to use a singular pronoun for individual people.
2.) It is simply illogical to use a pronoun designed to address specifically men, if you don't know it's a man. You're using some gambler logic buddy to try and convince us that we should actually think everyone we talk to is a man if we're playing diplomacy. I was joking about it earlier with the other person, but you're actually making that argument.

I don't know if you think we're attacking you, or vowing on a pact with the devil to "ruin" your language. I don't think anyone is trying to say you're horrible person or anything. I'm not making that claim. I'm just saying you're not hitting a nail, you're digging it back out of the plank and then throwing it into a river of spoiled milk.
Battalion (2386 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+5)
I'm trying to understand where those that prefer not to use "they" are coming from, I really am, but I'm not sure I've yet read a reason that doesn't just boil down to "this is a 'woke' idea, therefore I reject it".

The thing I'm struggling most with is that it's such a simple change to make, yet one which can make our community so much more inclusive. How can that be a bad thing?
RUFFHAUS 8 (2490 D)
09 Jun 21 UTC
(+5)
Suggesting that this pronoun nitwittery is not woke politics is the epidome of intellectual dishonesty. Suggesting that one needs to be a linguist, or claim to be on Wikipedia, to have a worthy opinion on the topic is asinine. I only referenced Peterson here, because some other bloke went tangiental and furthered the myth that he's some manner of biggot. He's not, and anyone claiming he is has not looked into the things he's actually said. I'm not claiming Peterson is the be all and end all of every discussion. However, his position on this issue is not absolutely only relevant to the matter at large, and as to how it might affect us here. Naturally, it's easier to just dismiss that with the lies and false claims of biggotry and recklessly put his credentials as an academic in question.

As to our community's need to address this matter once again there really is none. We play under user names, concealing our real identities from each other. Our actual name, sex, location, age, preferences, hobbies, musical acumen, diet, and so on are utterly irrelevant to the nature of playing Diplomacy. Some guy here actually calls himself GOD. Yes, I just assumed his sex. However, after several years of doing this along with everyone else here, theat layer has raised no objections to this, and for the sake an ease of communication, I've proceded with this assumption just as I would with anyone else in a predominately (to the virtual point of exclusionary) male community. If this player or any other were to mention to us that their real name was Beth, and wanted to be called she for some reason, I think to a person, would readily do so. No one would call for an investigation to determine Beth's name, biological body parts, or preferences to that effect. We would simply see that a member chose to share more personal information with some or all of us.

If someone was referring to me as a female, user word like she and her, I might point out that I am a male if I had enough time to do so and cared enough to correct it. If said person were doing this to insult me, I'd consider it rather juvenile, and ignore it. If that behavior passed to the community as a whole, I might update my profile page with something noting my real name or that I wished it to be known that I'm male.

I cannot imagine any current, former, or future member of this community going out of their way to ridicule another member. Neither could I forsee this community accepting that behavior. We're simply not that kind of place. the suggestion that we are is insulting in itself, as is the notion that we need to change to address some whimsically constructed fantasy episode of bigotry can be proactively prevented.

Each player at VDiplomacy has a profile page where it is possible, as many have already done, to share additional information. There is not a specific prefered pronouns entry box , but there is more than adequate space to customize any additional information one wishes to disclose. One could even list their social media contact information there for more information. However, VDiplomacy is *not* a social media platform, and we should not seek to make it one. We are a gaming site. Let's focus on game, and not social engineering. People on gaming sites frequently engage in the use of alter egos, pseudonyms, and creative personas. It's all part of the game for them. Mixing sexual preference and identity in such an environment is a risky proposition, but a choice left to us individually. Choices have consequences of both benefit and illness. Most of us understand that sharing personal information with complete strangers is a bad idea. And suggesting that those of us who simply wish to game, and make an absolutely reasonable assumption of sexual identitiy based upon a 99% plus male membership *and* predominately male referenced user name/avatars, are biggots or otherwise insensitive is insanity.

We have yet to figure out how to address the integrity of the gamers who play here on simple level of trusting them to play only one nation in a game, or not to multibox/account, or not to join games for the sole intention of sabotaging them. This has been going on for a decade here, and there are simple solutions to those problems. There are no simple solutions to the sex identity/pronoun suggestions raised in this thread.
Caustic (827 D)
10 Jun 21 UTC
(+1)
This thread is too much
ironGilligan (1474 D)
10 Jun 21 UTC
True, I really don't know why, like two, people care that much using a neutral pronoun to describe someone they don't know the identity of yet. I think mostly there's like two people (who seem to think they are the correct majority here) who think this is a bigger issue than it actually is.
@Ruffhaus Thanks for sharing. People should be allowed to express themselves here.
Although I still don’t see what the big deal is.
ironGilligan (1474 D)
10 Jun 21 UTC
(+1)
yeah I genuinely don't know where anybody is coming at this with all of this "woke" stuff. Even assuming a very "American traditional" view of gender, the opposite of what "woke" seems to be, using "they" as a gender neutral term still seems to work just the same. I'm being very honest about my opinion there, and really the implication that I'm lying to anybody here about that is an incredibly rude statement, call me a sensitive crybaby all you want but I don't know how else I'm supposed to interpret. "Suggesting that this pronoun nitwittery is not woke politics is the epidome of intellectual dishonesty. "
Believe me I've already heard that enough as a kindergartner when my mom left to go to work lol.

To bring this more on topic, I agree with other people here, there are some logistical errors (namely anon games) that make changing pronouns to appear on games harder than I thought originally. I still think them appearing on the forms just makes it easier, instead of having to open another tab and read a description you just immediately know the respectful way to address someone.

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119 replies
Chuttbugger (2695 D)
17 Jun 21 UTC
Profile Page Statistics
I have a few questions regarding profile page statistics that I'm hoping someone can answer.
10 replies
Open
David Hood (976 D)
19 Jun 21 UTC
June 2021 Deadline Just Dropped from DBN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JKadNpQwLw&t=1041s
1 reply
Open
Rhaga (1000 D)
14 Jun 21 UTC
Question about NMR and Civil Disorder
I don't really understand how the NMR and Civil Disorder mechanics work here on vdip. We're playing a casual unrated game with a group, but one of the players wants out for personal reasons.
8 replies
Open
NickArrow (1000 D)
12 Jun 21 UTC
Escalation Variant
I was wondering if anybody knows if it is possible to play the escalation variant on here? Ideally, Escalation can be played with less than seven players, or possibly more than seven players. But I am not seeing any sort of option to play Escalation, does anybody know if that is possible?
5 replies
Open
Standardized Diplo-Language?
I was wondering if anyone has ever come up with a standard language of diplomacy commands so as to maintain anonymity while playing an anon game among friends. If you're playing with friends, you can tell who is who by how they write. Thanks for any comments or ideas.
14 replies
Open
AJManso4 (2318 D)
21 May 21 UTC
(+1)
Anyone play EU4?
Wondering if some people would like to do some multiplayer games sometime of EU4 or other paradox games in a discord server im in
12 replies
Open
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