Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Devonian (1871 D)
29 Jun 15 UTC
(+14)
1v1 Tournament Rules, Rankings, and Challenges
Official Rules for 1v1 Ladder Tournament
1837 replies
Open
ineptmule (1016 D)
Tue 01 PM UTC
Conceding/Withdrawing from a game
Sorry if this is a well-flogged dead horse, but I've looked in the 'Help' section and can't seem to find an answer to this. Is it possible to concede a game - I don't mean voting for a concede result, but for a player to unilaterally withdraw from the game deliberately?
7 replies
Open
Dawaldo (1000 D)
08:33 PM UTC
"New World" forum game?
There's a text-based turn-based forum game set on a fictional New World continent. Some on here may be interested.
1 reply
Open
Bella (1016 D)
Tue 03 PM UTC
Phases Played?
Attempting to join game with minimum phases played and says I've played 0.
10 replies
Open
Titus (1312 D)
Fri 21 Jun UTC
(+3)
How to Create Group Chat Feature for the Site
Does anyone know how a group chat feature could be implemented to allow players to initiate a chat with a selected sub-group of the players in a game. Below is the idea i thought of how to implement. Maybe someone has some more specific useful ideas and any idea how easy and the cost to implement. My idea to implement is in following response

22 replies
Open
nopunin10did (1041 D)
14 May 19 UTC
(+3)
Changes to make PPSC better
Currently, the PPSC system rewards points in a solo. It has a number of perverse effects on gameplay. In the subsequent post(s), I will outline changes that could reform PPSC and reduce its detrimental impact.
57 replies
Open
kaner406 (1259 D Mod (B) (B))
08 Sep 18 UTC
(+3)
Variant Development Thread
This thread is made for the express purpose of cutting down of multiple threads that deal with new variants, ideas, concepts etc...
361 replies
Open
butterhead (975 D)
21 May 12 UTC
(+11)
Advertise your NON-live games here!
In an effort to compromise the pro-ads versus anti-ads for games: Post here for your non-live games to cut down on the number of ads but still advertise games. Post game link, WTA or PPSC, and the bet. Note: this doesn't count for special rules games.
2638 replies
Open
gman314 (1016 D)
12 Mar 11 UTC
(+20)
Winning
Oli won.
On Imperial Civilization's off-topic thread (link inside), there was a brief stint of Second to Last Person to Post Wins. Now that the thread is closed, Oli won.
7276 replies
Open
Elipticon (1000 D)
Fri 21 Jun UTC
(+3)
Why can't you view anything besides the public chat in archives?
Look I understand why you can't watch it during the game, since you could Pm players the details, but after a game has ended, I want to be able to view alliances, deals, and other things that you just couldn't see in the normal chat.
11 replies
Open
The Ambassador (1639 D (B) (B))
02 Sep 16 UTC
(+8)
New podcast for online Dip games
Hi everyone

Kaner and I have started a podcast about playing Diplomacy online....
230 replies
Open
Strider (1394 D)
30 May 19 UTC
Reliability rating
I'm having trouble understanding the new system.
9 replies
Open
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
Mon 10 Jun UTC
(+4)
Tournaments.
With the update to the new webdip-code we got all the new tournament-tools too. You can read about this here: https://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1637

Feel free to contact us on the modforum, if you want us to create a tournament for you.
3 replies
Open
jbeutel (1081 D)
Sun 09 Jun UTC
Manifest Destiny map issue
There seems to be a mistake in the Manifest Destiny map (fleets can move between one particular sea region and an inland region, which isn’t documented as being intentional and seems to just be a problem). Is the forum the right place to report these sorts of issues?
1 reply
Open
AJManso4 (879 D)
28 May 19 UTC
Question about replacing civil disorders
Why would people replace someone when they’re about to be eliminated, with games with a bet of 15 or such? Wouldn’t they just be losing their 15 points?
14 replies
Open
Dingus Supremus (960 D)
29 May 19 UTC
(+2)
Bruh
Bruh
13 replies
Open
Flame (1052 D (B))
24 May 19 UTC
Why we got this?
Is this a mistake? Or what?
I did update to the RU-server and find out that stats are not working in a correct way. I check VDip site - the same.

https://a.radikal.ru/a09/1905/b7/09a12f2de706.png
11 replies
Open
Sawyermongrel (981 D)
26 May 19 UTC
1v1 help
Trying to make a 1v1 but getting an error message that reads: <variable "delayDeadlineMaxTurn" is needed to create a game, but was not entered>but cant find a place to enter that?
any thoughts?
3 replies
Open
mysteryman3177 (951 D)
25 May 19 UTC
Diplomacy fandom
The Diplomacy Fandom on fandom.com needs active editors can anyone here check it out.
0 replies
Open
Anon (?? D)
24 May 19 UTC
1 SC, 0 units: a bug with the new system
Currently, I'm playing in a game where I currently have 1 SC and 0 units because my only unit was forced to disband. However, an interesting bug occurs, because the Save/Ready buttons still appear at the bottom of the screen, with no orders listed above them. Can someone fix this?
Game: gameID=37418
1 reply
Open
Zybque (1000 D)
13 May 19 UTC
(+1)
Cold War tournament
That cold war tournament I talked about: Subscriptions are open!
The first 64 players that sign up will participate. You do need to sign up to the discord server as that's the place where we try to mingle the diplomacy crowd.
3 replies
Open
David E. Cohen (1000 D)
13 Jan 19 UTC
Dawn of the Enlightenment Game Forming
I see there are separate threads for game recruiting, so here we are.
30 replies
Open
ubercacher16 (1645 D)
20 May 19 UTC
Chaos Colors
See below
14 replies
Open
Sky_Hopper (587 D)
23 May 19 UTC
Winning target SCs don't work?
I just tried to create a Classic game with the winning number of SCs as 34 and the site just didn't want to do it. Is this a bug, or a system put in place?
1 reply
Open
tobi1 (1948 D Mod (S) (B))
19 May 19 UTC
(+1)
Game processing paused
We are currently having some problems after another WebDip code merge with some deep changes to the codebase. Game processing has been paused until this is resolved.

Sorry for the inconvenience.
tobi1 (1948 D Mod (S) (B))
19 May 19 UTC
(+1)
So far issues with the in-game messaging and a new NMR extension mode have been reported. If you observe something else on this website that seems to not work as intended, please report in the mod forum.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
19 May 19 UTC
(+1)
In-game messaging works again, and the new NMR-code is disabled as we search for a better fix.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
19 May 19 UTC
(+1)
Should be fixed now too...
Lets hope for the best... :-)
Enriador (1507 D (B))
20 May 19 UTC
Yay. I see we got a new excused turns thing, looks really cool. What else is new?
Technostar (1962 D (B))
20 May 19 UTC
What's this whole "delays" thing?
Technostar (1962 D (B))
20 May 19 UTC
(+5)
Update:
Here's an explanation of what changed:
http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1551

I've read through it, and from what I comprehend about it, I am not in favor of making this change the default behavior for games. Overall, while this system appears to make sense for smaller maps, I am VERY concerned about what it means for the large maps that make vDip such a unique experience.

My biggest concern is that we don't appear to have an option to use the old NMR system, and there's no option for a 0-excuse game. Huge games would become impossible to play given the NMR excuses. Given a game such as Divided States, you NEED the old NMR system to play the map. Games already take a year to complete on that map. Imagine that each time somebody NMRs, there is a 2-day extension. Each time a player goes into Civil Disorder, there's a 2-day extension. Judging by the CD logs for the finished Divided States games, I'd assume an average of 50 missed turns per game, for 3 OVER THREE MONTHS of extra delay just because some players missed their turns. There's a reason why NMR protection is only enabled by default during the first year. My other concern is that in these long games, it's very likely that a player will miss more than one phase. The previous system only booted players if they missed two phases in a row, which meant that it was incredibly unlikely to get a CD just because you overslept or your orders didn't save. I know that I missed several phases in my Kansas Divided States games, and under these new rules, I would have been kicked out of the game long before it reached its conclusion just for missing a short phase here or there, and given how strong the position was, I know someone would have snapped it up quickly. I know that I will be irrationally kicked out of a game at some point due to this system. Unless there's something I'm missing, this new NMR system seems to pose a major threat to the experience of a large map by causing extreme delays and/or unjustly kicking players out of the game.
ubercacher16 (1645 D)
20 May 19 UTC
(+3)
I agree with Technostar. This is a ok feature for Classic and similarly sized maps, but it is simply unsustainable on large variant maps. WebDip is even having trouble with Chaos.

They however do have an option to turn it off. Also I think it should remain off in all existing games.
Technostar (1962 D (B))
20 May 19 UTC
(+5)
I support disabling this feature in all existing games. It should be an option to use, as it can offer security against NMRs in smaller games, but this change will severely mess with a lot of currently active games.
jmo1121109 (1200 D Mod)
20 May 19 UTC
There should be an option for a 0 excuse game. I specifically added that with tobi. If there isn't that's just a mistake on moving it from webdip over here that I'm sure Oli will get soon.
jmo1121109 (1200 D Mod)
20 May 19 UTC
(+1)
I am considering making a code change on webdip that will default the excuses to 0 for larger maps. But I want to see how it works with people choosing it on their own. The moderator team does have the option to remove excuses in bulk for a game if there are specific games where this is going to cause excess delays.
ubercacher16 (1645 D)
20 May 19 UTC
(+3)
And about suspending the "feature" in all existing games? I think Technostar and I speak with the interests of the player base when we request it.
jmo1121109 (1200 D Mod)
20 May 19 UTC
(+2)
That part is up to Oli, I'm not making that change on webdip. Over there it's doing exactly what I wanted it too. Stopping people who NMR hundred's of times a year and stopping games from ever having no orders entered. I personally feel that not letting a game have missed orders is more in line with player interests then allowing people to miss a turn and stay in the game, which negatively impacts everyone's strategy and turns a game of skill into something else. But Oli can do anything with the code here that he wants.

Unless by turn it off you mean reduce the number of excuses in all existing games to 0 vs removing the feature entirely. In that case that'd be a 1 line update statement in sql.
G-Man (2204 D)
20 May 19 UTC
(+1)
Z+1 Technostar
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
20 May 19 UTC
I will adjust this feature to our site soon (like I did with the new CSS-layout).
There are many new features added to the main webdip code at the moment, and with my limited time it's a bit hard to keep up.

And yes, you have the "old" NMR-system still, but the new one is "in addition" at the moment. I'm still thinking about a way to merge these 2, so you can limit these excused extensions to the first X turns. Or you can choose to use one or the other, as I think 1 or 2 extensions per game and player is quite reasonable for variants < 10 players.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
20 May 19 UTC
PS:
This will be disabled for all ongoing games for sure. It's for new games only. I just need to stabilize the code and than I will take care of this.
KingOfSwords (1026 D)
20 May 19 UTC
It appears that when all game processing was paused, as noted at the top of this thread, some players were charged with a delay in a game. As far as I can tell, this happened randomly, and without any fault on the part of the player. My guess is that perhaps this happened to the first power in alphabetical order in a game, and possibly this happened in a great many active games.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
20 May 19 UTC
@KingOfSwords: There was a (already fixed) bug with 2-player and live variants.
I have removed all recorded delays, and once the system is fully integrated I will erase again all records for a clean start.
KingOfSwords (1026 D)
20 May 19 UTC
@Oli: Thanks! Sounds good.
ubercacher16 (1645 D)
20 May 19 UTC
@jmo, yes. I mean reducing the number of excuses in existing games to zero.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
20 May 19 UTC
(+1)
That's how it works now (will need to adjust the gamesettings-page the next few days)
These two settings work independent:

1. As long as a player has excused NMRs his country will not be send into CD if there is a NMR.
2. If there are no more excused NMRs the next NMR will send the country in CD ready for a takeover.

3. During the fist X turns (you can set X in the settings page, default will be 2) a NMR will force 1 phase extension.
4. After the first X turns a NMR will not extend the current phase, adn the game will proceede as usual. It does not matter if the country is set CD or if the same player is still in charge of that country.

There was/is a setting how many times there should be a phase extension without all players entering orders. It got rarely used, and will be kept at 1 phase extension hardcoded.
Enriador (1507 D (B))
20 May 19 UTC
Looks about right. Hopefully with the option to set the NMR Excused Turns to zero by default, but keep the option as it is.
Technostar (1962 D (B))
21 May 19 UTC
I must ask, will zero-excuse games auto-kick anyone who NMRs and extend the phase (similar to the old Serious NMR protection), or will it just use the old system where players must miss 2 turns in a row to be kicked with no phase extensions?
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
21 May 19 UTC
(+1)
Yes, zero-excuse games auto-kick anyone who NMRs.
But it only extends the phase the first X turns.

So I don't think zero-excuses are a good idea for large variants.
And if you want a good game esp. on lower player counts it's a good idea to allow for an extension the complete game.
5-player game with 2 excuses = 10-player game with1 excuse
Technostar (1962 D (B))
21 May 19 UTC
(+6)
That’s still very problematic. If that 0-excuse setting is the default, going to have a lot of people who get kicked from games simply because they missed a single retreat phase, especially on maps the size of WWIV or Divided States where there are many more turns for players to miss. While NMRs suck, losing your spot in a game that you’ve put 7 months into sucks even more just because you overslept once. What’s worse is that the country will still have no orders for the turn if the phase isn’t extended, completely defeating the point of kicking players out to find a replacement. We NEED the option to use the old NMR system, as while it has its flaws, it doesn’t lead to huge delays and it doesn’t kick everyone out. In fact, as there are several large-size games going on right now, the old system should be the default behavior for any currently-ongoing game. I know the WWIV Sealanes game “Big Day” has already been complaining about the delays caused by this new system, but those complaints will probably grow if players lose their spots over a single missed retreat.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
21 May 19 UTC
(+1)
The old system is no longer possible.
You just need to set the excused NMR high enough, so players can NMR a few times during retreats (or whenever).
But keep the phase extension to the first few turns, so the games get not stuck in endless extensions all the time.
Kurt (966 D)
21 May 19 UTC
(+4)
I don’t mean to be rude, but I really am not a fan of this new system. Could there at least be an option to still use the old one?
tobi1 (1948 D Mod (S) (B))
21 May 19 UTC
(+1)
As Oli said, if you disable the extensions and accept to have an NMR-flawed game (which might be especially reasonable for large variants), there is only one difference to the old system: The number of allowed NMRs before being put into Civil Disorder will be absolute. The only advantage of the old system that I see is, that position might be free for takeover already after two consecutive turn, whereas in the new system this might not be the case in the new system if the allowed excuses are set to high. However, the new system also kicks players who NMR a lot but manage to give orders at least every second phase. So that could compensate the previous disadvantage.

Overall the initial intend over on webdip was to remove NMRs completely from this game. The reason for this was, that despite having the reliability rating, NMRs still happened a lot and harmed a lot of games. On the one hand this should be achieved by the extensions, on the other hand by the stricter CD-mechanic. If you now fear to be kicked out of game because you occasionally NMR on a regular basis, that is actually exactly what was tried to achieve with this change. Without intending to be offensive I believe that the game and its members would actually profit if you an unreliable player gets kicked after a certain number of NMRs.

Personally I would advise to not set the excuses too high to avoid the problems of consecutive NMRs, but instead just join games with phase lengths you could actually safely manage. This is the responsible behavior we as a community are actually trying to enforce for ages now.

Despite that, if you have suggestions to improve the system, we are always happy to consider those.
However, going back to the old system is even impossible on the technical site, too, since we want to be as much in line with the webdip codebase as possible. And going back to the old system would revert quite some of the recent changes of webdip which would make it much more difficult to maintain the code as it already is.
bsiper (1568 D)
21 May 19 UTC
I wonder if retooling the personal RSS feed to make reminders about games possible would be a good feature for this new system. I've set up an email reminder via IFTTT that emails me when the RSS updates, but all it does is tell me when moves have happened, which is not very useful if I need to get moves in beforehand.
Technostar (1962 D (B))
21 May 19 UTC
(+4)
While penalizing players who NMR relatively frequently seems reasonable, this new system with 0 NMR excuses is still not viable for huge variants. The standard is simply too strict to be reasonable. Take Divided States, which has an average of 56 turns per game. For a player who makes it to the draw, assuming you NMR once every hundred turns (which is a reasonable reliability that’s slightly above my old RR) and that each turn’s risk of NMRing is independent, you have only a 57% chance of making it to the end of the game without losing your spot (as opposed to a 99.5% chance under the old system). For a game you probably spent half a year or more playing, this is an unacceptable level of risk. You would need to miss fewer than 2 out of every 1000 phases to even have a 90% chance of not being booted from a Divided States game. By my guess, only a minuscule number of players on this site are reliable enough to not be booted from these games. And god forbid you need to ask for an extension due to IRL circumstances. That’s already stressful enough as it is due to the risk of NMRing once and I presume it would be much worse knowing that you might lose every single game you’re playing in if you don’t put in orders.

Essentially, for large variants, a 0-excuse instant-kick NMR policy means that even reasonably reliable players are likely to be kicked from the game, while a 1-excuse extension policy means about 3 extra months of game time on a game that’s already extremely long. Only the old system doesn’t have either flaw. And for a map as large as Divided States, I would prefer to be able to both finish the game that I started in and finish it in a reasonable time, even if it means that there are a few impactful NMRs.
Enriador (1507 D (B))
21 May 19 UTC
(+2)
That's a tough thing to balance.

"Very large" variants - in other words, Divided States, Chaos, Chaoctopi and the WW4 subvariants - are forced to have a zero-tolerance policy with absolutely reliable players, or pay for its lack of a perfect cast with extra game time. And that's bad.

However, I believe the vast majority of games/variants will greatly benefit from webDip's latest change. I observe a dozen games at any given time and it's pretty common to see a Civil Disorder, let alone irregular players who NMR from time to time.

If keeping both systems as options (the ideal solution!) isn't feasible, then there isn't much that can be done. These are variants bound to have a degree of randomness/very long duration due to their expansive nature. I suppose there are other game settings that help alleviate that duration problem if you want to give people 1 excused turn, like Rulebook press on 24h phases.

Suggestion: bellow is what the game creation page says about excused turns:

>The number of excused delays before a player is removed from the game and can be replaced. If a player is missing orders at a deadline, and the game is in the first few turns the deadline will reset and the player will be charged 1 excused delay. If they are out of excuses they will go into Civil Disorder. The game will only progress with missing orders if no replacement is found within one phase of a player being forced into Civil Disorder. Set this value low to prevent delays to your game, set it higher to be more forgiving to people who might need occasional delays.<

The old system clarified that a "turn" means Spring/Autumn (in most variants) and that a turn can have up to three phases (Movement, Retreats, Adjustments). The new system should have a similar clarification.
tobi1 (1948 D Mod (S) (B))
21 May 19 UTC
@Technostar, Enriador:

As already mentioned a few times in this thread, Oli acknowledged the problem with large variants and the WebDip code got adjusted to tackle it. Here on vdip it is now possible to set extensions and excuses *independently*. So you can for example set two excused turns *without extensions*. That means each player can NMR twice and is only set to CD the third time.

Taking your numbers, Technostar, there is a probability of 89 % to finish the game with up to one (excused) NMR and a probability of 98 % with up to two (excused) NMRs. Given the fact that NMRs are normally bunched to a short timespan, the idealization of independent NMR probabilities already decreased that number a bit compared to a real statistic. Furthermore you still have a chance to claim your nation back, if you return in time before your position is taken over by a different player. So the real numbers of not being kicked are even higher. So there should really be no such big problem if you go with one or two excuses without extension.
Technostar (1962 D (B))
21 May 19 UTC
(+2)
@tobi1
Thank you for clarifying! The no-extension excuses should avoid both of the problems I had specified prior, as they don't slow down the game and have a degree of leniency built in. I see that the default setting is 2 excuses with NMR protection on for the first 3 turns, which seems reasonable.
Enriador (1507 D (B))
22 May 19 UTC
Thanks for the explanation @tobi1. A few more questions if you may:

1) Do "turns" still have the same meaning as it used to before the code merger? So if the default is 3 turns, that means (using Classic as example) Spring 1901, Fall 1901 and Spring 1902?

2) The Create game page says that "The game will only progress with missing orders if no replacement is found within one phase of a player being forced into Civil Disorder." Does that still apply to each and every time a player goes into Civil Disorder, or just within the "Reset deadline" limit?
Sky_Hopper (587 D)
22 May 19 UTC
Are we sure we don't want to keep the old RRs in a data cache somewhere? I was pretty fond of my R95.
jmo1121109 (1200 D Mod)
22 May 19 UTC
The old RR stats are still in the old tables that housed them, the new formula though has replaced the formula previously used. The new breakdown page explains in a lot of detail how RR works now so it should be a lot easier for everyone to understand where the penalties are coming from. And RR is now based on a 1 year cutoff which adds forgiveness which was previously missing for people who changed to be more reliable. It also has harsher penalties for 4 weeks after an NMR but then half's the penalty for it to make it easier to redeem your RR.
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
22 May 19 UTC
The new RR is much easier and cleaner. So sorry, your old RR stats are gone...
I will change the "defaults" for "normal-sized" (7 players or lower) new games to 1 excused turn with 1-phase-extension always on to see how this works, as it should improve the quality of many games.

ingebot (1750 D)
22 May 19 UTC
(+1)
Hi Oli! There are some issues for me due to the recent update: I've seen several "Error while sending message" on the day the updates came online, and a few today, although I can still occasionally get messages through (I basically have to resort to praying that a message may make it through). Also, even while I can watch youtube on 1.5 speed, some parts of vDip is taking me several minutes to load (some just now refuse to load at all, such as me attempting to make a comment in another thread, as well as attempting to make a modforum post, Idk if this one will even make it through). I really think that, given the previous version didn't have serious issues (I think everyone can agree that details on pot distribution and RR pale in comparison to ability to access this site at all). If this persists I may have to give up on vDip simply due to the technical issues (I'm not prepared to sit and wait and pray for messages and orders to go through). Is there any possibility of reverting to the old version?
Oli (977 D Mod (P))
22 May 19 UTC
The "Error while sending message"-bug was resolved some days ago (there was a problem during pregame chat). Please use the modforum to report bugs. We have a bugtracker there.
It was first reported some days ago, fixed, and it looks like there are no more problems with the chat for anybody else (and no errors in the logfiles).


38 replies
LeonWalras (1105 D)
03 May 19 UTC
Chaos!
As I'm sure many of you are aware, we now have the classic chaos variant over at webDiplomacy.net
4 replies
Open
Grahamso1 (1720 D)
10 May 19 UTC
Two winners in a game?
What happens if a game is set with winning conditions lower than 50% of all SCs and two players reach that goal in the same season? Is it a tie? Does the game continue until one has more?
5 replies
Open
Grahamso1 (1720 D)
10 May 19 UTC
Two winners in a game?
What happens if a game is set with winning conditions lower than 50% of all SCs and two players reach that goal in the same season? Is it a tie? Does the game continue until one has more?
3 replies
Open
AJManso4 (879 D)
10 May 19 UTC
Builds
Can you build in your main SC if you moved out of it in autumn?
2 replies
Open
Sky_Hopper (587 D)
08 May 19 UTC
Illogical Rating Assignments
Take a look at the following link:
https://vdiplomacy.com/hof.php?gameID=37006

Now, you can see the "brains" of the rating system. As you can see, the system deducts less from a player who CD'd than a player who kept playing and survived. Why? Shouldn't players be held accountable for their CDs?
2 replies
Open
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