One of the weakest is clearly France on the Rinascimento map (Siena too according to the stats).
https://www.vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=29

Also the Frysians on NorthSea Wars.
https://www.vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=73

One of the strongest in my opinion is European NATO on Cold War Redux.
https://www.vdiplomacy.com/variants.php?variantID=128
This one makes me sad because this variant had a great potential, but ended awfully balanced with no testing having been done.

I'm probably missing many other cases.

The strongest: Fatflap (the dark green country) in "Fubar".
Another thought is on England/France/Russia/Turkey in "Classic - Economic". Once they get a certain center, they will never be eliminated. Yet they can still lose a game.

The weakest: Germany in "Classic - Germany vs Russia".
In many cases, England can be even weaker in "Classic - Pick your countries" if a game only contains 2 players. Or Turkey if it becomes Turkey vs Russia.
Also, as Jean_Henri_BERNARD said above, France and actually every country in "Rinascimento" starting with 1 center are extremely weak.

I haven't gone through and analyzed all the maps, but of maps I've played and some memory of, I remember Morocco in Africa being pretty dominant, as well as Britain in Colonial 1885. Similarly, Turkey in Colonial 1885 is very weak.

No conversation of this is complete without a mention of Rus (as weakest) and Ayyubids (as strongest) from Crusades 1201. Great map, horribly balanced

China on 1885 has got to be one of the worst ones.

The thing about 1885 is that if you're not a colonial power, you have pretty much no chance of getting a solo (Russia can do it if they manage to keep both halves of their empire in the early game, but usually you have to choose one to sacrifice to maintain the other one) due to the extremely easy-to-implement stalemates on that map.

I absolutely love the split empire idea though.

I found out about this now, but it turns out that Argentina has the best stats out of every nation in South American Supremacy on this platform. Meanwhile on Conspiracy, Colombia is by far the strongest.

It is a severely unbalanced map and I find it nearly depressing how Peru can't do much against Colombia (speaking from past experience), but Bolivia and Venezuela seems to be the weakest there

Bumps

Colombia on South America (4 players) seems to be the most broken one. Brazil doesn't have a chance at all.

I would love people's opinion on Europa Renovatio. The numbers (win/loss) may disprove my opinion, but I go with Aragon as one of the strongest, and Genoa as one of the most difficult to play. Aragon strong because Spain has both Portugal and the Africans to worry about, and Aragon can ravage the Med with fleets. Genoa just due to massively split geography. Takes a diplomatic master to win with Genoa. My opinion anyway.

I think no conversation about ER is complete without a mention of Qara Qoyunlu - easily the strongest power on that board, only limited by the Northern Stalemate Lines. Ultimately though that game is dominated by who's willing to play and who's willing to press - I've seen every country do well and every do poorly. So that one balances purely because it's so big.

Also for strong, add Milan due to easy access to SO MANY SCs in northern Italy and the aforementioned Genoa as a neighbor (and the often-split Papacy). And Novgorod's corner bias and stalemate lines means they're often taken out early or late by an every-neighbor-attacks-them coalition.

As for weak, toss Venice in there too. Spread out like Genoa but worse because ends up pinned between the Balkans and the sea. Burgundy also ends up split between France and the Germans, not able to go to either side, and Lithuania is stuck between the Russians in the east (who don't have a ton of incentive to fight) and a hungry Hungary, Poland, Ottomans, Genoa (in Crimea), Teutons, and Livonians on other borders. I believe they border the most powers at 9.

Checking stats somehow England barely edges out QQ (1.58 vs 1.53), which I was not expecting. QQ definitely feels like the strongest by a fair bit, it just has such a good corner position that is easy to defend, easy to get nearby SCs, and neighbors who have a lot more to deal with. I guess England ends up doing well because France is always occupied by others and can often get Norway to help against Scotland? Idk

the soviet union of Youngstown World War II is impossible to win, Japan and Germany will attack you in 99% cases, I searched some games that Soviet Union wins or draws, is only because Japan move is stupid (no offensive for that player), everyone wills attack them. I think if the USA is be joined in

is more balanced

I think England might have better stats than QQ because people get the idea in their head that it's difficult to invade once unified. I find the opposite to be true, but the British Isles are certainly very good for launching attacks *from*

it's difficult to invade once unified

love a good convoy via the irish sea - entering in the back door

@bbg True.USSR may win if Japan's peaceful policy.But in most suitiations USSR can't win.
Adding USA won't help because it will make Germany stronger(as USA may have conflicts with its nearby countries like USSR,UK,France).Then USSR may have stress because of the strong Germany.

And I think China in the map 1885 is too weak...The lack of navy...
In that time China was a big but weak kingdom in reality,but we should make it balanced in the map.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Colombia in Gobble-Earth. Starting with just two centers while the other powers start with 3 or more is a little unfair, but even then a Colombia player has managed to solo somehow and it's done better than 5 other countries on the same map. In a way, having just two SCs to start with might be a blessing as it makes it hard to think of Colombia as a threat until it's too late. The location also is reminiscent of Austria in the Classic map in the way that both are diplomacy-heavy nations.

@Peppapig, why we don't put America in East, but no West, the majority of map that we see America is in West, but if we setting that America is most near the Asia (Make less blocks in East, and more SCs, put more American SCs in California).

can balance the game

@Mitomon:

Having played Colombia (and Mexico for that matter), it’s balanced. You get your pick of Argentina and Brazil as allies, and Mexico normally doesn’t look your way early / is busy with the US. And if the US does look anti Britain in Canada, they’ll turn and hit Mexico after. You have enough dots close that if you can avoid a super early war and/or have an ally, you’ll be fine and can do well. The two homeland dots versus three really don’t change much.

Interesting! I've never played Gobble-Earth, so maybe the colonial builds limit the problem more effectively than I can imagine, but only being able to build two units per year does sound like a major handicap. Maybe Panama is considered a third home center under foreign occupation? I don't see that in the rules, though.

@halfasleep
Good points. Colombia players do have to play very deliberately and can't really stumble into success like a few of the other nations.

@JECE Gobble earth is incredibly fun because of the colonial build mechanic. Colombia could build as many units as it wanted if things were planned well. Colonial Builds is a sort of nerfed Build Anywhere- you can build anywhere outside your home centers, but only if you are able to wait a year and still hold enough centers to build that year. Say I'm colombia with 4 builds this year. I choose to build two in my home centers and commit the other two to CBs. If the following winter I still have at least two builds, I am able to build those anywhere I want. If I only have one I only get one. I could still choose to build those in home centers that year if I wanted to, but I wouldn't be able to roll over the CB status of two builds for next year if I were to get two more centers. I'd have to start over by reserving them for the following year.

So Colombia could be very powerful later on if they're able to rely on colonial builds and are tactfully diplomatic.

@Peppapig

I disagree about China being weak in Colonial 1885. You start with no navy but have opportunity to spawn 4 of them after the first year, and because of the inland security, it's had to lose those ports from the getgo. China also beats both Russia and Japan in a 1v1 while also not immediately folding in a 2v1.

However, it is nearly impossible to solo because the geography create a stalemate box that is impossible to get out of if your opponents know where to prop up defenses.

So, China could be considered weak in terms of solo power, but I think is pretty good in terms of draw power.

That being said, Japan is quite good in the stats but (to memory) I haven't yet played a game as Japan where I made it to the draw, or against Japan where they weren't eliminated quite easily.

https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=51642#gamePanel (China died in 2v1)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=44515#gamePanel (China lived)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=50805#gamePanel (China died in an early 2v1 which left Japan weak)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=39412#gamePanel (China strong, but Britain stronger)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=52352#gamePanelhttps://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=47551#gamePanel (China lost in 2v1, Japan existed but was not strong)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=47551#gamePanel (China died in a 2v1; Japan also died)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=62071#gamePanel (China and Japan allied and actually did pretty well together)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=54033#gamePanel (China and Japan were initially allied but China built 0 fleets and was inevitably stabbed by Japan)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=58764#gamePanel (China did well, but Russia went AFK early)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=58307#gamePanel (China and Japan allied, neither was strong, but they both made it to the draw)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=53031#gamePanel (China did really well, but was boxed in and couldn't cross the solo threshold before Turkey)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=40480#gamePanel (Initially Russia defended well, but China ended up in a 2v1 and died. Japan was reasonably strong)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=42241#gamePanel (Japan and China allied and ended up pretty strong)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=52928#gamePanel (Japan and China allied and ended up fairly strong)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=48886#gamePanel (Initially was in a 2v1 to beat up Russia, and then stabbed Japan. China ended up strong.)
https://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=41083#gamePanel (China lost the 2v1)


There's a couple more in my game history, so here I stand corrected. China seems to be beat up in a 2v1 a lot, but if it can avoid that, it comes out strong.

Wait did we forget about Denmark in 1600!?!?! that is wild lol they have like 50% of all the solos on the map

@Jece:

A couple things. Both Bogota are very well connected, so while like a Buenos Aires or Mexico City build isn't very good, Colombia doesn't really have that option. And Colonial Builds tend to be really good, and with the kind of core and near constant build you can get as Colombia you tend to get quite a few of those.

I haven't played the variant to be honest but France's position in Rinascimento looks like a total joke. Am I missing something or are you almost certainly staring down the barrel of 1 unit after year 1?

France starts with no SCs, just as Turkey starts with no SCs. It's very achievable: https://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=4916#gamePanel

Yes but Turkey should pick up at least 3 after the first year, I don't think they're in a weak position. France is more likely to have to settle for one.

True, but still a challenge to be met.

I also propose we rename this forum thread to The Mirror: Conversations between the Ambassador and the Ambassadude.

Lol