I guess the way I said it appears negative, but in truth, I am just encouraging players to improve so that we can have more satisfying outcomes for each game. Also it is difficult to know what that player is saying, which makes a poor game.

it's pretty easy to understand me while i suck hard in English grammar...
and probably vocab, but no one dares to correct me when i spell something wrong or do something wrong with the grammar, even not when i ask them to...
but anyway, if i didn't have school i wouldn't learn English to play this game a little bit better...

My point is, regardless of the content of a message, that if everyone keeps to grammar rules, the environment of one game can already be of high quality.

just promoting quality i guess lol, and promoting for players to improve

So why is it fair that they have to learn English Grammar to play? Why don't we all have to learn French, or Spanish, or some other language in order to play? It isn't fair to ask someone who doesn't speak English as a first language to learn something when we aren't willing to learn anything ourselves about their language or grammar to further understand them...

There's at least two errors in the first post, hilariously enough.

http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=3611

@Butterhead, I'm just encouraging quality gameplay. Your question is not on topic, but I'll answer it anyways. If French was the international language, then surely people all over the world would be studying French! Everyone would be able to speak French to a certain extent. With a little bit of studying, grammar wouldn't be a problem. Everything is on the internet. lol. Someone who is able to speak a language to a certain extent, should be able to study its grammar. Actually, your comment is just kind of weird lol. I read it again just now. Doesn't make any sense haha.

@SacredDigits
Oh, I think I see them, too. Silly me..

What I am getting at, is that you can't say lack of Grammar reflects shallowness of thinking, because it doesn't, it shows that someone isn't fluent in English... Which is perfectly acceptable... and English may be the "international language" but there are people who don't speak a lick of English!!! and there are still countries(A hell of a lot of them actually) who may speak some English, but their first language is not English... therefore, you can't expect them to have excellent grammar in the English language.

Oh, so your saying that it doesn't reflect shallowness of thinking. The person may not have shallow thinking, but language is the expression of one's mind. Ultimately, to not know the language spoken thoroughly reflects shallowness of thinking, although it may not be true. Writing is writing, and it shouldn't be seen on a subjective manner. The standards I speak of are quite high. But as long as you know what that person means, you know that you he isn't a shallow thinker. But I'm sure you would agree that the words spoken would reflect a shallowness of thinking.

What I would agree to is that being lazy and ignoring the use of proper grammar would reflect a shallowness of thinking. There is a difference between the lack of using, and lack of knowing...

I wouldn't agree to that. Everyone is shallow then, lol. Your not basing it (shallowness of thinking) on the text, but rather the person, which I think is wrong.

Yes, everyone is shallow at some times... I am no exception, and nor are you. and you are basing it on the person as well, because if they do not KNOW the grammar, then they cannot show it... you will probably say my argument is foolish or something of that caliber, but I see no use furthering this conversation anymore. the truth of the matter is, you cannot expect people to use proper grammar if they don't know it due to a cultural difference...

http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=3611

Proper grammar as in written form. I think grammar is pretty universal. People with the worst slangs can write properly. I think. Formally that is. I'm talking informally. I think you agree with me, cuz if you don't your an idiot lol.

"Oh, so your saying that it doesn't reflect shallowness of thinking"
Is there a verb missing here? Perhaps should there be an "is" between "saying" and "that"?
Please help me, I am not english.
However, I agree with butterhead. His saying is also my saying.

"I think you agree with me, cuz if you don't your an idiot"
Oh so many errors in that statement:
A) Opinions are opinions, you can't say someone is an idiot for not agreeing with your opinions.
B) It's because, not cuz.
C)your should be you're
D) Don't you dare come on the forums, complain about people not using proper grammar, and at the same exact time not even use it yourself, and then call someone else an idiot for disagreeing with you.

Your an idiot as well. And no, a verb isn't missing. your is you're.
If someone were to say or write, "Me know them rights about it.", and it is fact that he has an iq over 100, he might not be a shallow thinker in reality, but by what we see and hear, it can be concluded that this writing or saying reflects a shallowness of thinking.

I also agree with butterhead. English is not my mother language and I don't consider to be shallow or poor player because of it. Maybe to original English speakers grammar is easy thing or usual, but my first language have completely different kind of grammar (very complicated and completely different from English) so it is no only about learning...it is about the way of thinking.

People who know to write in Latin alphabet could easily learn Greek alphabet or even Cyrillic (because of their similarity) but to learn Carthaginian or Chinese alphabet he need to go very deep.

@butterhead
i was promoting better gameplay and was encouraging players to improve as a diplomacy player. What we are talking about isn't really about the topic. lol. so this isn't related to the topic. i'm not a grammar-absolutist

@dejan0707
If someone were to say or write, "Me know them rights about it." "in you language", and it is fact that he has an iq over 100, he might not be a shallow thinker in reality, but by what we see and hear, it can be concluded that this writing or saying reflects a shallowness of thinking.

@Otto- you're not making any since to me here... you are saying that our conversation is not related, but it is... I am stating a point that people may not have the ability to just "learn better grammar" because it is so different from their culture. so it is directly related.

Dear Otto
I only wanted to present other side of the medal, It is not an easy thing to keep "thinking in foreign language". My IQ was 140 on my last test and I made sometime even greater mistakes in my massages that that in your example. :)

oh. well. they can study it, and then they become better at it. study grammar in particular. good point though. i guess i was referring to people who have the ability. it's just disappointing to see these messed up sentences that are hard to understand, and im pretty sure they would see how screwed up their own sentences are after observing some normal sentences by other players.
Your beginning point wasn't what you said, but nice progression. I do agree to what you are saying. Like I said, I want players to improve, and improvement of grammar would help in improving their own and everyone's gameplay. People do have the ability. Just takes effort though. its not easy. Wouldn't you agree that grammar kind of does affect who you choose as an ally?

@dejan0707
lol then your agreeing with my point... yea it's hard to think in another language as fluently as your main

@Otto
No, I am just being good diplomat ;)

@Otto- I do not use grammar to choose an ally, unless it is impossible to read, which I have only had one person before like that... and my first point was actually the same thing as my last, just not phrased nearly as well.

your first statement had something to do with fairness.. lol. point taken though

@butter, i also do totaly agree with you.

@otto, if in-game u don't understand smt, ask for a clarification. IMO lack of grammar does not make a sentence imposible to understand, nor spelling mistakes (to a certain extent) do. slangs and short forms (like IMO itself, ASAP, CD, NMR, and that lot) are waay more dificult to understand than a phrase with poor grammar.
Also, if u ask for a extra effort for non-native players, you should do an equal or greater effort yourself and offer a easier language to those players, as well as english tuitions, etc, etc

What i see here is a player asking for something out of self-interest. Adn funny thing! as butter pointed out, what he asks for, he himself does not even do it.

yes, my first statement was that it wasn't fair for us as English Speakers to just expect people with different languages and cultures to know and learn Fluent English grammar just to make our lives easier. anyways, glad we could reach an agreement.