But Berlusconi is gone.
GOD save Germany.

The politicians are kinda unable to restrikt the markets
:((

He stepped down, yes but I mean dman him for destorying Italy basically.
Germany is at least a functioning nation-state. Belgium is a country and should stay a country!

Well, I'm not that firm with UKIP propositions, but it seems that Farage is also a
pied piper like Silvio.

We're so happy the skunk resigned, we're so sad he didn't do it 3-6-9-11 months ago, when it was clear he couldn't run our country whithout a (real) majority in our House of Reps. Actually, it was clear even since 2009: after 1 year of government, in spite of the great majority he had then in the HoR, he basically had done NOTHING.

mhm
:))

Begluim is a country? i thought countries had functioning governments...

how long have they been negotiating on forming a government?

oh, and there is nothing wrong with devolution, breaking up countries, and forming supra-state entities to tied together these units... better than being stuck with a single system which ensures nobody is happy.

Super-state? Belgium? Sigh, whatever I guess it would be hypocrisy to want Belgium to stay a single country and the want for Scotland to become independent. However, I will say this, the possible collapse of Belgium will most likily not be pretty and will most possibly result in violence.

BTW the United States is considered a "superstate" and both Belgium and USA are considered "Federations," "is a type of sovereign state characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions united by a central (federal) government."

Supra, not Super... i was referring to the larger body which Belguim has pooled some of it's sovereignty with... And yes, self-determination for all.

I'm not at all convinced that Monti will be any more able to do things that Berlusconi or Prodi before him. Having lunch with all of the Italians at work on Wednesday, I was baffled by their optimism. But maybe it is just that they are all from the North and they see a crack up coming out of all of this. The Catalans are all overjoyed by the crisis as they see a crack up of Spain coming out of it and view Spain's economic success as the main obstacle to their independence.

As for Belgium, I'll point to Alexander Hamilton here in the USA. Debt binds and a lot of debt binds more tightly. The Flemish and Walloons may find themselves chained together by their monstrously huge National Debt. Economic disparities will make break up hard. Plus you have to remember that bonds issued by an entity called Belgium will all go away and will have to be replaced in total immediately by bonds issued by these two new entities. Ask Italy and Greece what it is like rolling over even relatively small portions of large debts in the Euro these days.

As for Scotland, are you freakin' nuts. You have nothing. You make nothing. Your oil is running out. Your population is in absolute decline and you have been living parasitically off of another more functioning society for decades. You're honestly worse than Quebec. Being Abandoned to Freedom would be a horrific shock to the system for you. Decades of welfare dependency does not build functional self-sufficient people. Beyond the near impossibility of Scotland's tax base ever hoping to support the pension and healthcare cost of the population. But generally, Scots expect a level of government services and taxation that could never be brought into line on their more localized level.

:D
could you maybe always say whitch country do you come from so its maybe easier to understand your opinion ?
i think italy is the best example for europe: the rich north wants to separate from the poor south and found a own wealthy club without the south

USA

gopher I'm not convinced that Monti will solve all problems of Italy, but I'm sure he'll do so much better than the 2 clowns you said. He's not a politician, he's not a tax-frauder, he's not corruptor neither corrupted, he's not a media monopolist, he's not a bold sex-addicted. And, mainly, he's competent in economics, expert in european matters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Monti
Today, in his speech to get the Parliament's "trust", he said he want to do many of those reform that are necessary for our Country. Some of them are "left" reforms, some more are "right" reforms. So, in his agenda, there are most of those reforms our "regular" politicians of each side are always promising since the '90s, and never did as they got the power. Nothing new, no magical formulas. Just the things it's since years we wait they're done, because they must be done. Will he succeede instead?
Well, during last year Berlusconi could count on a majority of 316 (over 630: half +1) Reps in the Camera dei Deputati (House of Reps). Today's outcome (voting on HoR's "trust" in Monti's Government) after the Camera discussed his speech:
Yea: 556
Nay: 61
It's a good - incredibly good - start (Berlusconi started with 344vs281). We all hope it will last because it CAN last. The air you breath is like "Who, in this grave hour, votes against Monti will lose Spring 2013 elections". They can't find a valid reason to vote against. It's what THEY proposed.
So don't be so baffled by our optimism. :)

Yes, everyone is better than Berlusconi.

GOD the rich north doesn't want to separate from the (not so) poor south. Yes, there is a Party sometime says this way and your Newspaper in your Country reports only this.
They want the Federalism, they say that the taxes northern people pay should mostly be used for the north. When the things go in a way they don't like they throw the toys off the cot and scream "Secession!". When the Elections are coming they become quiet and say "Federalism" because they know that otherwise they'd get less than half popular vote they get in the Federalist way. Basically they use "Secession!" as a Texas hold 'em Player would use "All in!".

Popular votes. Let's see which cards those Poker Players have.
In Italy there are 60 millons people. 50 millions are electors, 10 are minors. Italy is split in 20 Regions. The 8 Regions they claim being "the North", the only 8 regions they can get votes, count 27.7 million peoples, so about 23 millions electors.
Last general Elections they got:
3,024,543 votes, that is 6% of Italian electors and 13% of "northern" electors. And many of them (majority perhaps) are just federalists. So you would never have heard of them if they didn't ally with Berlusconi's Party.

No, GOD, the rich north doesn't want to separate.

Our Italians are one from the South (Naples), two from the Middle (Rome and Prato) and three from the North (Milan and two little towns in the Bologna Region). The Northerners that I've known not just here but over my lifetime seem to view Southerners as almost sub-human. Every Catalan I've ever known has explicitly said that they want independence, but I've never heard a Catalan speak of Spaniards the way Northern Italians speak of all other Italians.

Italy has grown slower than Japan over the last 20 years. Italy is basically dying as a society and I'm doubtful that there exists a political solution to what I view as a cultural crisis. Monti seems to me like bureaucrat and little more.....worse yet he is a regulator. At best, he is a technocrat, and there is not a great history of technocrats succeeding in the political sphere.

@GOD, Minnesota (in the US) is the Gopher State. If you've ever read Sinclair Lewis' series of novels, that is why the town is called Gopher Prairie. But I'm actually from Texas.

is monti in a party or something like that ?

No, he has never been.

Yet another bad sign....

?
a president without a party ?

yeah, this is meant as a temporary measure, to put someone neutral in charge - with a specific mandate to solve the debt crisis in italy, and once he's done the political parties will go back to fighting for power.

it would be unimaginable for him to retain power for any longer than necessary.

If i'm not mistaken, at least.

but thats not democracy
that are things that were yoused to do in the romen republic

GOD the point is that Berlusconi in December 2010 lost the majority in our House of Rep virtually but not formally (he kept 1 vote of majority in 630 Reps). This situation couldn't let him have Governments Acts appreved by the Parliement. Two Reps with a flu were enough for a Government Act to be sinked. But if a Rep asked to the House "should the Government resign?" then 316 Reps voted 'NAY' even if ill, flued or moribund. We basically had no Government since Dec 2010 to Nov 2011.
So while Zapatero resigned before Spain got in bad waters and they voted yesterday, Berlusconi didn't. This situation went on for a year until 2 weeks ago that fake majority of 316 become 314 and Berlusconi had to resign. Italy was in trouble with URGENT decision to take. No time for a 60 days-long Electoral campaign. Out President finally read our Constitution and did what he did because he could, and the Parliement approved (556Y / 61N).
If Berlusconi, instead of being glued at his Prime Minister's chair until the last second, resigned 3 or 5 or 7 or 11 months ago as everybody asked him, now we'd had the election made.
When he finally did it was too late and our President wisely decided for a new Government. No Government for 60 days more would have meant finance default.
Next election will be mandatorily within April 2013.

1) when the Roman Republic used to do things like this, they gave the man dictatorial powers and afterwards he had to leave the City forever. Monti will not have anything close to dictatorial powers. A Prime Minister rather by definition must have a legislative faction to govern. A Technocrat, with no legislative support and no faction behind him upon whose votes he can count, will not have a high probability of success.

2) Do you really want to claim that elections in Italy result in anything? What needs to be done in Italy is basically the platform Berlusconi has been running on for decades. He has won at least two massive majorities on more or less the exact kinds of reforms that Italy needs.

3) You don't think that a crowbar was involved in Zapatero's removal from his chair? Spain has been in semi-crisis for much longer than Italy has. The Socialists got nearly wiped out in local elections ages ago and Zapatero announced that he would never resign.

so the conservatives will win in spai
?

@Guaroz, thanks for the details of the italian situation, what i'd heard living in Ireland left me with little of that details, and just a vague idea of what was happening...

@Democracy, it's a representative democracy, the reps (parliament) voted in favour of the new prime minister. The people don't seem to have a problem (or they'd already be out in the streets protesting)

1) I like you knowing Roman history, but do you have some example closer to 21th century?
The point is that Monti will (hopefully) make many of all those unpopular but necessary reforms our coward politicians (whether from right, left, middle, middleright, middleleft or wtf-ever formula they invent every election) always announce and NEVER make.

2) That's why people is tired of Berlusconi. His platform WOULD BE good (aside that it doesn't even mention any willing to fight to tax evasion, great issue in our Country) but it's just promises, just empty words. He has never kept his word in spite of the large majority he had every time he has been PM. This time, after 2 years he basically did nothing, in Dec 2010 many tired Representatives started to vote against him. Not enough, we needed 2 more.

3) I don't know spanish politics. I was only saying that B. refused to resign and this didn't let us having elections. Because somebody here said "that's not democacy" or something. So if B. did like Z. did, we'd have a new Parliement now, like the Spain has.
"Crowbar" is less metaphoric than you believe, talking about Berlusconi. When he finally stood up they found some cyanoacrilate on his chair. Really, I don't know how to explain how you feel when your government doesn't govern for a year long because he doesn't have a real majority anymore in the House, but everytime there was a "fire the government" amendament it got rejected for 1 vote, and because of this 1 vote B. said "I got the majority, I don't resign". A nightmare. He didn't govern for a year long! Government Acts were rejected by the House. Two months ago the House rejected the final 2010 balance annual report. What?!? the Parliement just said it DOESN'T APPROVE the way you spent money last year, and you don't resign? What do you want to do? Go back to the past and spend Country's money in a different way? Wanna call Robert Zemeckis? A nightmare.