Brief Thoughts on Powers (w/ Optional Rules)
Lombard: The Lombards goal is to reunite Italy, making the Normans an obvious enemy if they refuse to leave Naples. The Holy Roman Empire and France lies just across the Alps, powerful and dangerous enemies, both desiring Rome. Hungary is the most likely ally for the Lombard.
Byzantine: The Byzantine is strong, with four SCs and a great growth potential. However, the Byzantines are also always under threat. Four powers need Constantinople to win and the Turks, Egypt, Hungary, and Normans as immediate neighbors. The Byzantines can rely on diplomacy being able to help out the Catholic powers to Jerusalem and cause tension between the Catholic powers. Be wary and trust in the navy.
Hungary: Head East. The West can wait. Russia and the Balkan SCs are waiting to be taken. After gathering a few of the neutral SCs Hungary should then be open to a change in strategy. Head North to deal with the troublesome Poles and Germans, continue East to get the target SCs or grab some beachside property.
England: The Normans, spread across Europe with all the benefits and drawbacks. The best strategy perhaps is to take France as a whole, giving England five SCs and a strong position to take the rest of Western Europe and use the map for English benefit.
Holy Roman Empire: Powerful like Germany in standard diplomacy but, facing slightly different than Germany. First, the Holy Roman Empire will not be strong in fleets with Copenhagen nearby. In return the Empire has five starting SCs. Beware Early Leader Syndrome!
France: Very crowded and to the brightsiders very good for a fast win. France must come to terms with several nations and face off with England someday…unless the wily Normans can be persuaded to leave Rouen peacefully.
Spain: Mostly, deal with the Moors. Spain has a good position to project power in either the Atlantic or Mediterranean.
Moors: What a headache, the Spanish at the gate and all these neutral SCs waiting to be taken. Destroy Spain quickly or give up Cordoba quickly either way something is needed to be done fast.
Turks: While the Target SCs call the Turks to march on the infidels, the Turks might need to deal with the fellow Muslims. Persia and Egypt are still small and can be humbled to vassals with effort and diplomacy but, is it worth it to have weak Muslim allies over stronger ones?
Egypt: Working with the Christians might not be a bad idea. Just try not to get in their march on Jerusalem if you do ally with them.
Poland: Watch out, both the Empire and Denmark will threaten your west and to the East lies a small Russia but, what if it is left to grow? Ste and Lit are going to decide a lot for early Polish strategy.
Denmark: Like the Vikings you will need to attack British Isles on day. Luckily, the Danish should have an excellent (or try for) navy to grow in the Baltic, Isles and take North coast of Europe.
Novgorod: Unite Russia. Look to capture Sarkel or Caffa for a Home SC.
Persia: Persia has possibly the easiest targets SCs. Persia is a bit of backwater and should use that to Persia’s advantage. Beware slow growth…

The Normans own Sicily and Naples with their holdings in England and Normandy. Please note the "3rd Home SC" rule before being discouraged by the HRE 5 and the number of 2 SC powers. I can't really speak for balance quite yet, since I haven't tested it. Why what do you suggest? (Please cite your source if you want a map change, a lot has changed since the 1000s-1100s)

what year is this based in?

and hopefully the weakest power being able to call for a holy war will give them diplomatic leverage

Problems:

HRE can't really get to Jerusalem. No Mediterranean home sc means it's pretty much impossible. And it's unlikely that in the event of a strong HRE, someone would call a Holy War.

Around the late 1000s and early 1100s, the start date is spring 1081
Hmm, I like the idea of having the Western Catholic powers fighting for control of "Crusader States" it may be easier just to have HRE target Copenhagen (An enemy in history) or Paris (like 1871)
Note: Again, a Crusade can't be called on a fellow member of the faith and the HRE is surrounded by Catholic powers reposting...
"Every 10th seasons or 5th years, the smallest power of the Catholic and Muslim Powers can declare a holy war, against a SC that’s not of their faith."

Crusade/Jihad Rule
Every 10th seasons or 5th years, the smallest power of the Catholic and Muslim Powers can declare a holy war, against a SC that’s not of their faith. All the powers within that religion can assign a unit to go on holy war in the spring of the next year after the target been announced. Only in this season can nations assign a holy unit. This unit has double movement. These Holy units can “jump” over other units to get to a region and go past units in the passing regions. Once one of the powers of the religion takes the SC all “holy” units lose their bonus. Only one holy unit can be in play at one time. Orthodox powers (Russia and Byzantine) cannot declare holy war but, they can have holy war declared on them. Finally, till a Crusade or Jihad successes another one can’t be called. Like Diplomacy these holy units are not bind to the target, they can be ordered to do whatever the owner wishes.

Airborne: I was referring to the possibility of HRE getting Jerusalem to win. Since the only feasible way to get units near Jerusalem would be during a Holy War, the smaller Catholic Powers wouldn't help a nearly-winning HRE achieve its goal. Simply put, HRE cannot win.

good job!
I can't find the rules though..

a link to the complete rules would be appreciated.

and to Gobble again, ah ok thanks for clearing that up I'll change HRE to Copenhagen and Poland to Frankfurt

it should be the second link under the map link on the top.
I'll repost the rules just in case
Nations and Starting Units 41
Lombard League (C) A Milan A Bologna F Venice
Byzantine Empire (O) A Constant. A Thessalo. F Smyrna F Athens
Hungary (C) A Budapest A Pecs F Zara
England (Normans) (C) A York A Rouen F London F Naples
Holy Roman Empire (C) A Frankfurt A Aachen A Munich A Vienna F Hanover (wc)
France (C) A Bordeux A Paris F Marseilles
Spain (C) A Compostella A Toledo
Moors (M) A Cordoba A Marrakech
Seljuk Turks (M) A Iconium A Erzurum F Sinope
Egypt (M) A Cairo F Alexandria
Poland (C) A Jadzow A Krakow F Ghansk
Denmark (C) A Copenhag. F Malmo F Oslo
Novgorod (O) A Novgorod A Ladoga
Persia (M) A Tehran A Urgench



Start Date: Spring 1081
29 Neutral+41 Home=70
36 to win
While Rome, York, and Hanover are not labeled they have two coasts.
Sarkel and Constantinople are canal regions.
Ambition and Empire Additional Home SC Rule
The 2 SC Great Powers may acquire a third home SC during the game. This center is the first SC the Great Power captures and is final for the remainder of the game. The Great Power may not acquire additional or subsequent home SCs during the game.
The third home SC may be either a minor power or the SC of another Great Power. However, if the SC was originally another Great Power's SC, its status does not change. In other words, the SC functions as the home SC for whichever Great Power controls it during the game. The recapture of a lost home SC, even if it is the "first" SC captured by the Great Power, does not preclude the Great Power from later acquiring a third home SC during the game.
If a Great Power captures its first two SCs in the same year, the Great Power must pick which one of the two will serve as the 3rd home SC.
Optional Rules
Crusade/Jihad Rule
Every 10th seasons or 5th years, the smallest power of the Catholic and Muslim Powers can declare a holy war, against a SC that’s not of their faith. All the powers within that religion can assign a unit to go on holy war in the spring of the next year after the target been announced. Only in this season can nations assign a holy unit. This unit has double movement. These Holy units can “jump” over other units to get to a region and go past units in the passing regions. Once one of the powers of the religion takes the SC all “holy” units lose their bonus. Only one holy unit can be in play at one time. Orthodox powers (Russia and Byzantine) cannot declare holy war but, they can have holy war declared on them. Finally, till a Crusade or Jihad successes another one can’t be called. Like Diplomacy these holy units are not bind to the target, they can be ordered to do whatever the owner wishes.
Lengthy Example:
It is year 1085. Denmark has been under siege by England and the Holy Roman Empire and has only 4 SCs making Denmark the weakest Catholic power ingame. The Moors is only 3 SCs having been kicked out of Iberia and is the weakest Muslim Power. In Winter 1085 Denmark marks Jerusalem (under Egypt control) as the target of the Crusade. The Moors marks Cordoba (Spain) as the target of Jihad. In Spring 1086 the Catholic and Muslim powers began heavy debate, while Russia and the Byzantines watch with amusement (and relief being a possible target for both religions.)
However we will limit our view. England and France agrees to relieve tensions between the two countries. England orders Fleet Rennes convert to holy unit and France orders Army Bordeaux convert to holy unit. The Holy Roman Empire, cynical of such a far away goal does not convert a unit. On Fall 1085 all converted units are given a marker. (cross or moon) France can now order the unit to move two spaces. England orders F Ren-SAO and France orders A Brx-Mar. F Ren moves past Spanish F MAO but is bounced in SAO by Moors’ F Mar-SAO.
Target SCs
To win, a power must have 36 and in addition two individual target SCs which are of historical importance to own.

The Target SCs are as followed
Lombard League (C) Rome Naples
Byzantine Empire (O) Rome Jerusalem
Hungary (C) Constantinople Jerusalem
England (Normans) (C) Paris Jerusalem
Holy Roman Empire (C) Rome Copenhagen*
France (C) Rouen Jerusalem
Spain (C) Cordoba Jerusalem
Moors (M) Toledo Arabia
Seljuk Turks (M) Constantinople Vienna
Egypt (M) Ugranch Iconium
Poland (C) Novgorod Frankfurt*
Denmark (C) Novgorod London
Novgorod (O) Constantinople Krakow
Persia (M) Constantinople Bagdad

Ahem a couple typos
in the example the Moor fleet is F Mrr (Marrakech)
Only one holy unit in play per nation*

Question: who controls the holy units? it's original controller? and do they have any disadvantage?
Because if they don't have, i don't understand why someone would not want to nominate a unit to be holy, it's a bonus that can be handy at any time, doesn't it?

PS: found the link to the rules, but since both links are so long, i didn't tell them apart at first. You can maybe add some space between them

You control your own holy unit. Your unit is still under your control albiet with more power.
It can be handy in the miltary point of view but, if you use it for your own uses there are some drawbacks diplomactically.
A) Allies that could use your help taking Jer might be annoyed by your lack of piety.
B) The power who called the holy war will be more cautious and might use the holy war ability against you in some form.

C) There are other "holy" units on the board...
I didn't want to make the holy units bonded to the target due to gamepaly and historical reasons. While Jerusalem was the target of the Crusaders, Zara was hit by Crusaders (4th), so was Constantinople (Also 4th), etc.

a) piety? what's that?
b) he can't call a holy war upon me, and he can't uncall the current holy war, so the most he can do is calling no more wars, which is as bad for him as for me
c) precesely why i want my own holy unit too

As i see this, it only means all but 2 powers have a special-moving unit.
If i can get an extra move by letting half of the other players having the extra move also, so be it.

And the diplomatic drawbacks are always there, it does not matter if you declare a holy unit or not. You could as well be winning and not declare holy unit and be attacked diplomaticaly.

Piety, your faith in your supernatural being. A metaphor for using your unit for uses that's not what the Crusade/Jihad for.
Yes, indeed only Russia and Byzantine cannot field special units. I don't think the Orthodox had there only Crusades.

I still like the idea of the holy war rules but it is open in my mind to be stratched off along with the Third Home SC rule by just giving every 2 SC power a third Home SC at start to make the game more simple or perhaps just have a "basic" rule game and a "complex" rule game.
Any thoughts on that?

I also don't like the concept of target SCs that are also home SCs. This automatically forces some players to attack each other, which I believe restricts gameplay and deducts from game experience.

Well that I can agree on that. Unforunately my desire to have Jersualem as a very important SC was doomed I'm afraid. Most of the critism has been about the rules. I was more interested comments on the map.

If you wanted Jerusalem to be a very important SC, it would have been better to base the centre of the map around the Israel area, or even a Palestine-only map. That way you can set Jerusalem as a neutral SC and it would be simpler.

Yes, i agree, jerusalem is a too far away target to hold such importances. Half of the nations need jerusalem to win...
And i think that taking the holy war rule out and giving a starting 3rd home SC can simplify it a good way. Not that i don't like the idea of a holy war, but it's just pointless....

About the map i think that the northern europe powers have serious dificulties to get to the med, which is key in this map.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwZ3TXdj5ZyHZWVmMWRhMDEtODZjNC00YmYxLWI3NzItODE2YTUzNWVjYTY3&hl=en

Nations and Starting Units 41
Byzantine Empire A Constant. A Thessalo. F Smyrna F Athens
Hungary A Budapest A Pecs F Zara
England (Normans) A York A Rouen F London F Naples
Holy Roman Empire A Frankfurt A Aachen A Vienna F Bologna F Hanover (wc)
France A Bordeux A Paris F Marseilles
Spain A Toledo A Barcelona FCompostella
Moors A Cordoba A Marrakech F Fez
Seljuk Turks A Iconium A Erzurum F Sinope
Egypt A Cairo A Damietta F Alexandria
Poland A Jadzow A Krakow F Ghansk
Denmark A Copenhag. F Malmo F Oslo
Novgorod A Novgorod A Ladoga F Pskov
Persia A Tehran A Urgench A Shiraz

Start Date: Spring 1081
43 Home SCs/29 Neutral=72
37 SCs to win
2 England 2 France 4 Italy 2 Spain 4 Africa 5 Middle East 5 Russia 2 Balkan 3 Baltic 1 Bohemia
While Rome, York, and Hanover are not labeled they have two coasts.
Sarkel and Constantinople are canal regions.

The Straits of Gibraltar are pretty much impregnable; it's even worse than standard Diplomacy because there are so many SCs in that area and 2 powers that it is all too easy for one power to be able to hold the Straits and call all the shots.

Another thing: I think the SC density is too high. I think what would happen is a flood of armies and fleets will stop everything from moving.

http://www.variantbank.org/articles/designing_maps.htm
No not really, it's 13 nations with 143 Spaces, and a ratio slightly under the recommended ratio of 2 to 2.5 which isn't a huge problem as you make it out to be.
I suppose I can split waters but, there is only so much I play around with geography
The Neutral/Home SC is around the correct ratio of 2/3 (.674)

143/72=1.986

Ahem I had my numbers wrong but, I did a some minor changes on the map
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwZ3TXdj5ZyHZDU1ZTUxMTEtYTI4OS00YmNkLTgxZWItYzBiMWNjYTkzM2Yy&hl=en
-Renamed Genoa, Piedmont and moved the SC to Savoy
-Change the water bodies by Spain so Gulf Of Valencia and West Med touches SAO.
-Added Morocco Sea to protect the Moors

-Bodies of water count is 31, total space count is 149, 72 SCs+77 Non-SC spaces
149/72=2.069 ratio
29/43=.674

where is the sea of morroco? i can't see it
BTW, appart from the minor changes, what about a playtest? if it's not implemented here in vdip, we can make it old way via email with a game master
who's up?

I think we could change the Holy War rules to as follows:

For one year (Spring + Autumn), countries on the same side must each nominate one holy unit. No exceptions. Then the player who is weakest will control all the holy units for this year. Holy units will move up to 2 spaces.

I know this could screw up many plans, but this DOES make it more balanced. Further balancing could be that only the strongest X powers need to contribute.

At the very corner connected to Marr, SAO and Fez
I could GM a PBEM game. Just the player count that's needed

Gobble can you please answer a couple questions about your revision idea
I'm not quite sure on every 1 year because of the shifting that would cause. Every 3 years?
Then what happens to holy units after one year and are there more than one on the board?

I think what gobble means is:
- Holy war is declared each 5 years by the weakest nation as in original rules.
- ALL countries have to mark a unit as holy warrior
- Holy warrior units are controlled by the weakest nation, the one who started the holy war, but only for 1 year.
- After that year, the holy units return to normal units under their regular owners command.

I like this variation more than the original one, but i have 1 question:
The SC's taken by holy units will be taken by which player? the weakest or it's rightly owner?

Count me in for the playtest. You could open a new thread to look for players.

PS: meeting the 2 SCs needed to win conditions is going to be difficult for spain and france (Jersulam) but specially for england.
Due to geographical distribution, Jer is imposible to take from the west unless you have land armies both to the north and to the south of the city. I think that controling E med and just 1 of it's sides should be enough. Maybe making Jer not being in contact with Damietta will solve this (in this case, Jer would only contact E med, Jor and Acre, and could be taken more easily, though still difficult)

I revised the rules. The Target SCs no longer applies