Jimbozig, I am insulted ... please invite me

Sounds good.

Of course Rancher

I knew you would bow to pressure

Sounds good

rancher? no hes to bad.... :) only 28% winrate... nonono :PPP
depends on what map what mode and so on.... ;)

Alas... I wish I had win+draw= 50% like Rancher...
Also, I won a lot of 1v1 games, so my true "w+d" ratio is even lower...

okok then im unique or what? pfff :(

Are we playing anonymous? If not I can see maybe an ego or two may get in the way.

Well, when jimbozig plays to the ego like that, how could i refuse? Count me in.

Amby - wouldnt it be MORE fun for the egos to get in the way :)

you just have a big head that's all.

Anonymous or not both seem fine to me. Preference of the other players?

I would like to bet at least 150 and also play WTA. Probably need phases 36 hour or greater. We'll see how many people and then chose a map? Probably nothing too crazy or anything.

My Preferences:
- Non-Anon. They always guess who I am after my first message, and I often guess many opponents. Knowing that my opponents are those who wrote in this thread makes Anon pointless, IMHO.
- No more than 150 , I'm not that rich! :)
- I probably played only 2 WTAs in my life, I feel like I'm not good at it. PPSC strongly preferred, expecially in a high stake game like this.
- any Phase between 20 and 50 hours, preferably neither 24 nor 48. My favourite would be 38, but I'm afraid it's not avaliable (never got why I can't type the lenght I want)
- any map that has no evidently advanteged or disvantaged countries. IE no Balkan because of Greece. No Colonial: I don't want to spend hundred points and find myself stuck with China (65% defeats)
- and most of all, I wish there was a clear rule that tells us what to do when there's a NMR (whether with or without missed phase) or a CD or someone asks for a Pause/Ext/Canc. Any rule would be better than no rule.

Im with guaroz on the non-anon. With the people being known ahead of time, we're likely to know who most of our opponents are anyways. And also, while some people might be able to disguise themselves, some people (guaroz) whondont have english as a native language will always be known and thus at a disadvantage.

Points: 150 is fine by me
Wta/ppsc: im fine with either. If its PPSC though, id like a gentlemans agreement that people wont pkay exclusively for a draw. In other words, draws are fine, just try to win first.
Phase length: 36 is good for me. Nothing longer than 2 days please.
Map: obviously deoends on player count, but something somewhat balanced would be nice (although itd be very interesting to see a very high quality rinascimento game with good players).

@Drano. I liked your post, thanks for your explanation on anon/non-anon, I agree with all you said. I got only 1 issue about draws:

Did you mean "If it's WTA though..."?
In a PPSC you can always play for the win, because if you're unlucky and you turn out second, your nice game is well rewarded anyway.
Instead, in the 2 WTAs I saw, players was basically scared to lose their whole bet, so both games ended with 4-way draw (they were Classic).
So: was it a typo?

Whether it was or not, the idea of that agreement sounds a bit odd to me. Everyone knows what is the best for himself. Now, you may not agree with him and that's why I like Diplomacy: because there's not only one way to look at it.
So, to avoid unpleasant discussions during the game about whether someone could or could not play differently, about whether he did or not all he could, about whether he is or not a gentleman, and to keep my ears from hearing weird arguments from those who have an interest in having someone else playing differently, please no.
If we really want to avoid draws we could enable the "No-Draw" set of rules (basically: draws are allowed only if there's a stalemate). Otherwise, I believe it's more funny if everyone can play like he feels to.

I'm not a big fan of WTA, would prefer PPSC. And ok with non anon, just wanted to get views first.

(buy in & phase length are fine. Balanced map too, but would prefer not classic as it's too predicatable. That said a high stakes remniscento game woukd be very interesting!)

Seems like 150 and 36 hours can be set.

Regarding PPSC and WTA, I agree with drano. My position on any game is that a defeat or a survive is a loss. As such, I really don't like it when people play for second place, or for a net point gain. WTA motivates everyone to play for a win. It also motivates people to stop a win, which I see as the concern that you are mentioning. If it becomes clear that a solo is unachievable, I think the goal of whittling the draw becomes a good one to play for, as it is risky since it may open up another player's olo chances.

I am fine to play PPSC as I know that my game will not change, but I defintiely agree with drano on this one.

guaroz/ambassador, what is your position on a player sacrificing a draw in PPSC for a survive with a larger point outcome?

Regarding pauses, etc. I think it would be necessary for people to disclose any they may need. Sometimes weekend trips come up, etc. I think we should honour all reasonable pauses.

As for NMRs/CDs, I would hope we don't see those. NMRs are sometimes just mistakes, I think we can all live with our own mistakes.

remniscento? what about the poor sot who ended up with France?

@Jimbo.
1- My position is win>=draw>survive>defeat=0. So, if you ask me astractly, I'd never change a 280 draw for a 400 second place or survive. While draw may be considered a victory, because nobody did better than you, second place is just the first of the losers.
That said, like you can't ask someone to play a WTA as if it was a PPSC, same way you can't ask someone to play a PPSC as if it was a WTA. I mean that, between a meaningless 190 6-way draw and a good 660 second place, I'd probably choose the latter.
And again, it's not only a matter of numbers and points. The way some games went, sometimes I've been more proud of some glorious defeats than of some easy wins. Or I've been very proud of a 2-units survive, when all the others wanted me dead to let 'em have a smaller draw. Why should I care if someone soloes or draws if everybody want me dead? (btw, in a WTA you'd not have a reason to fight: it's either defeated by the drawers or defeated by the solist. So? CD? save all holds?)
It's complicated, Jimbo. There are many things to be considered. But I think I know what's the best for me, when time to decide comes. And the thought that someone else in my place could make a different decision, it's what makes Diplomacy interesting and unpredictable.

2- I'm not an expert of WTA and I may be wrong, but I've always thought that that "First: don't lose!" mood brings a lot of draws in WTA. So I agree with your "It motivates people to stop a win" because everyone is motivated to play for not lose, but that's quite different from "WTA motivates everyone to play for a win". Indeed, this goes better for PPSC: when you're in a good position in a PPSC, you are encouraged to try a win, because even if you fail you don't lose everything.

3- "Regarding pauses, etc. I think it would be necessary for people to disclose any they may need. Sometimes weekend trips come up, etc. I think we should honour all reasonable pauses."

Fantastic! Can we state in advance what is a reasonable pause? 3-days extensions for weekends are ok, but other than that? 5 days? 7? 10? I'd like to avoid during the game discussions that usually end in someone proposing a cancel because the game would be "screwed"

4- "As for NMRs/CDs, I would hope we don't see those. NMRs are sometimes just mistakes, I think we can all live with our own mistakes."

I guess that everybody hopes that. So I take the rest like a "No mercy for those who don't save their orders". Right?

I agree on 150 and 36 hrs, perfect ... I love the Rinascimento map and it is fun, but there are some states that are just plain old screwed. If we do old Italy fine, but prob would not vote for it. I play PPSC and WTA equally and really don't use different strategies on either, so I don't care about that ... just no goofy maps with underground caverns or trolls or pirates

Jimbo
Guaroz
Ambassador
Drano
Rancher

Roxart/kaner/orathaic - are you all interested?

Who else? Should be fun.

Guaroz says, "My position is win>=draw>survive>defeat=0. So, if you ask me astractly, I'd never change a 280 draw for a 400 second place or survive."

Agreed for the most part, particularly where survive=someone else soloing. No one should shore any points when surrendering a solo. That's the biggest flaw in the scoring system. Players are encouraged to become the second place loser, rather than to try to play the game.

Would you want to play with us Ruffhaus?

Which map/variant are you thinking of?

Hi Jimbo, I'd be curious to know if my reply answered your question. Well, I'm ok if you want to keep this secret but, before you consider me in, I need an answer at least on these 2:
3- Can we state in advance what is a reasonable pause?
4- So I take the rest like a "No mercy for those who don't save their orders". Right?

3 - I think this is fine. I think a 3 day long weekend is reasonable with a week or even less notice. i think longer the person should find a sitter if it is unescable. if anyone will need longer, we can discuss pre-game to determine if it is reasonable.

4- I guess so, there is really not much we can do. If we have played 6 or 7 game years and no NMRs I would not want to cancel because someone did NMR. i think it is on each player to ensure that they can commit. Does this seem fair?

Also, I am fine to play PPSC if you all want.

@ruffhaus, something tried and tested, depends on how many people. i second rancher's opinion of nothing with undergound tunnels or trolls.

Modern si always nice, something along these lines depending on numbers?

Oh so you'll invite Rancher, RoxArt and others, but not me??? *sniff*

@Jimbo.
4- Well... no, it doesn't. I'd like to have no cancel even with a NMR in the first 2 years. They "tiled" me too many times and I don't want to play a pre-set-up game without a clear rule about it ever again (btw, do you know what is a "tile"?). That's why I also wonder:
3- why do we have to wait pre-game to discuss it? Can't we do it now?

3- Yes, I meant now as pre-game. Please announce any pauses you may need.
4- Can we not set the NMR extend phase thing? I have seen this done.

Puma, would love to have you. Are you interested?

Thanks for including me on the original list, but I am trying not to start any new games until after a vacation I am taking in a couple of weeks.

Fair enough, maybe someone can move to challenge your point lead via this game.

Modern sounds good if you still want players

3- I think I won't need any pause. I just wnat to know in advance how we must behave if someone asks for a pause 7 or 10 or 15 or 20 days long. I also "think we should honour all reasonable pauses", just want to know how many days a "reasonable pause" may be long.

4- Er... Yes we could... but I can't see how this "NMR extend phase" option would be related to what I said.

Europe 1939 and abstraction seem better than Moderrn since Atlantic and the Middle East is connected.

Sengoku offers little stalemate.

I havent played "who control america". Any feedback on that one?

Sorry, don't have time to join a game right now. Enjoy!

Jimbozig, Thank you for including me in the description as one of the best players. I am honored for being mentioned. Unfortunately, during the next month or so, I will only have access to the internet with a Kindle Fire, which will be too difficult to conduct a full diplomacy game. Please keep me in mind for a future game.

Reasonable seems like 3 max, anything bigger please discuss in advance of the game.

bounce