Indeed, Nomads are pretty much hopeless it seems. all I have to say really is, thank you Tadar for saving my life early in the game. without you, I would have died, and would not have gotten the opportunity to stab you later in the game.

which you couldn't even follow up on...

Ongoing Haven now has Nomads doing alright for himself. gameID=1022

uhh, tt... I was killing Tadar very quickly. had we not all agreed to draw, we would have killed him. it was stabbing you that I couldn't follow up on...

yeah, it was because you attacked me that I was forced to draw early

haha, exactly. the rest of us were ready to draw, I had to be sure you were going to accept it.

@love, he has 4 centers but lost one home center, plus it's still early. you'll see what we mean.

you could have waited to be sure AFTER you finish what you started

indeed, he won't last long without some luck.

haha, well, the most that would have happened was Tadar got killed, which would not have happened, because after I stabbed him I gave him my word he would survive, and fully intended to keep it.

well, I don't think Oli will consider our bickering as feedback, so lets move on.
from this game and based on my experience in "Haven-this map is insane" I feel like there's a bit of a stalemate line around the north continent. also some build centers are infective late game, I had to post pone some because I knew the units couldn't get anywhere quick enough. By the time you reach more eternal centers, it's likely you already have the forces necessary to take over half the map.

I agree with tt on that part. it took years just for someone to take the Last Troll center, and no one was moving.

I'll say this much about the Nomads: They are not for the causal Dipper, and a single mistake will END you, especially if some of your neighbors only come on once per turn at 4 in the morning.
(hint hint, Capt. Hook)

well Nomads are in a disadvantaged position, but usually experienced larger powers offer less powerful ones a way out.. personally I tried to offer all the support I could to them, hoping in some pay-back later on.

overall: very nice map, with a lot of good spots. I personally like the fact that after having lead the game for quite a while two powers were able to wipe me out of the board incredibly quickly.. this means that there aren't much stalemate lines, which I like. I have to add that I was Undead and I was based in the central part of the map: my home island, the isle in the middle, the northern coast of the southern island, and half of the underworld.I passed from 20-ish to 10-ish centers in no time! and I had a plan to stab Magicians which could have done the opposite.. so the map is cool for this kind of changes.. I think this is due to the relatively low ratio SCs/non-SC-territories .

about the underground: very very nice idea! to be exported in thousands of other new variants! I personally don't think it's easy to defend: in the game we played it was conquered by 3-4 different players. think at how many times have you seen a Germany or a Turkey owned by 4 different players in the same game!!! again I think this is due to the low SC/non-SC ratio. yes, you can populate the underworld with ten armies.. but you'll use ten armies to keep 4 SCs, which is uttermost inconvenient!

north: I haven't played in the northern part of the map, but for what I saw there WAS an easy stalemate line.. so that part could maybe be a good spot for improvement.

about the implementation: Oli did a spectacular job, one of the finest so far! I can't write all the positive comments I've got in mind (I'd need 3 separate threads :P) so I'll only put a suggestion for improvement.. in the passages between world and underworld, it's not clear when a unit has just happened to arrive or has been standing there for a while. this could be improved by adding a small red arrow of movement if the unit has just arrived..

thank you Oli for this present!

Regarding the underworld, in our example yes it was more easily fought over, but look at gameID=323, the ogres held a good lock over the area without needing to sacrifice too many overworld units. and as for your 10-4 Unit-SC argument, remember that person also holds the lock on a second half of the board, making it a strong stalemate position as I unfortunately had to find out.
Speaking of Stalemates, to elaborate more on the northern area, it's not just an easily defended line, it's multiple lines that can bend and merge to fit a shape that works for the number of units available. again looking at the other game, despite taking full advantage of the NMR, I was only able to push a little bit before it snapped back. I think what makes the line worse is how easy it is for one country on each of the two continents to dominate the region. two games so far show this effect.

Any more comments now that "Haven-This map is Insane but awesome" ended too?

my comments were based on both, was there a particular subject you wanted critiqued?

No, only generic impressions, as I never played the map on my own but liked all the ideas very much. Also it was quite challenging and interesting to implement...

It was good and well put together, I believe the only error found was Crystal, correct?
more games will be needed to see if there's balance problems between any players and if there's any other stalemate locations.