gameID=4341

i really want a game... but i'm extra busy this week :(

Actually a well played turkey beats england every time. The damage of a slow land development for England is too great.

But it is still not unplayable. Similar to a G v R match I suppose. If the right guesses are made the game can be won by the weak side.

That's why Englands fleets start in the waters Kaug. England can be in Kiel after 1901, and Munich by springg 1902. Combined with a fleet in Tunis by fall 1902, and England can be near all 3 key spots (st pete, munich, tunis) very quickly. Its then a matter of holding them ans capturing all scs behind the line.

Still takes a lot of time to convoy enough armies and those three spots are only key if Marseilles is also secured. England cannot get as fast as needed to all those spots.

Plus Tunis won't be held long unless some more fleets are sent south early and thus convoy lines in the north are broken.

I agree with Kaug

STake Spa, Nor/Kie in 1901. Build fleet, 2 armies. Fleet to EC, convoy and take Bel/Hol. MUnich moves to Tyr and disrupts turkish forces trying to capture Vie/Tri. 2 builds, maybe 3. Build fleet and armies again. Send the fleet in ec south,fleet in tunis disrupts ionian/tyrrhenian until reinforcement arrives at end of year. Hol/Bel move to Mar and Mun while Tyrolia continues disrupting.

All in all, England has a good shot at disrupting turkey enough to hold out. If turkey supports hjimselfd and moves slowly, england has enouggh time to reinforce.

Its not perfect, but I hardly think its a guaranteed turkish win.

By 1903 Turkey should be in Piedmont already and blocking the move to marseilles from Burgundy. Plus he should have a good enough position to take out Tunis before reinforcements can get there to help. And there will be a million armies pressuring munich and berlin who would be undefended, as there might be leakage in the north and a turkish army in Norway or at least St Pete. I just don't think England has a legit chance. I would like to try out an initial convoy to Brest. Take Paris Brest and Kiel with a fleet. Build two fleets and an army. Take Marseilles Spain and Sweden next and leave fleets ready to convoy units in E. Ch and North Sea. THen build three armies and convoy them all. Bel Hol first and then Norway. That is the best start I can picture for England and still it probably is not good enough. And to get that start you have to forget about Tunis and St Pete early on and leave them for later.

I think England has better chances than you give it credit for kaug...

Everyone seems to forget that Turkey has just as an annoying time getting armies out... It's just they have a choice not to use convoys to speed things up (black sea) for early game.

And I should add that while Turkey may have an easier time expanding early, they have a much harder time later on when England is convoying straight on the front lines.

Just finished and won a hard fought game as England

gameID=4356

I'm about to notch my second win as England. So far I'm finding England to be better than Turkey...

i liked the game very well balanced

Seriously though how does one win as Turkey, barring bad English play? I did it once... with an England who had 6 units on 1903 instead of 9 because he chose to advance position too much, costing himself the units needed to hold any substantial fronts (for reference, by 1905 I had Berlin, Munich and Spain...). English play wasn't necessarily bad but the strategy was unsound. In my other game as Turkey I've played what I think to be a solid game only to find that England is probably going to win anyway.

I recognize that England needs convoys to win, but I think that might be the advantage it has in games I play. I didn't bother setting up long convoy routes because I wanted to push the Med, but I'm wondering if a Black Sea fleet makes a lot of difference or not. Convoys do speed things up in the end, but they're slower initially, and I think that's why they only got used as England because they had to be used to get armies off the island... but the end result is that because England is convoying and Turkey is not, England wins.

well DJ Shock Trooper beat me, he was Turk I was England, and not to take away from his win, but that was mainly because of A: a misorder from me, B: I didn't see the move that could have won me the game until It was too late, and C: bad guessing on his moves...

Yeah, I don't quite get how he won that. England had the dominant position in that game.

i think turkey needs to take advantage of convoys just as much as england, but the when (because they are slow to begin with) is also important.

convoying to naples and rumania makes a big difference, i'm not convinced about convoying to trieste/venice because fleet adriatic is not necessarily that useful.

I'm not even sure I'm convinced with Naples. You have until about 1904 as Turkey to get Tunisia, and you can already cut off Piedmont by S03. The lost tempi on the part of the two fleets needed to convoy a largely-extraneous army into Italy kills any chance of getting Tunisia, England can cut off Scandinavia ridiculously easily, and Turkey can't really deploy armies into Germany fast enough to secure Munich and Berlin so that it can win without Tunisia.

And the main problem with Black Sea convoys that I've noticed is: When do you start? Doing so with the initial fleet concedes Tunisia forever and legitimately endangers the Italian front, unless you build multiple fleets in W01 to counteract the loss of the initial fleet going to the Mediterranean... in which case, since you won't have armies to convoy in 1903, you might as well build the BS fleet in 1902 and send the initial fleet to the Med. That might be your best shot to use BS convoys since you're established by 1903 and the extra turn saved in getting to the front is paying dividends in the crucial years of 1904-1906. Any later than that and your advantage is pretty minimal on account of the fact that you've probably won or lost the battle for Germany and/or Russia (and with it the match) by the time those armies actually get there.

gameID=4336
England won this game.

Do we know the figures for which country has won the greater proportion of the games?

4 english solos to 5 turkish solos

from here http://vdiplomacy.net/stats.php

I'm about to have the fifth English solo, but my opponent is dragging the game out...

2-0 as England now. 1-0-1 as Turkey. Stats should be pretty balanced so far.

Gotta wonder how balanced this variant really is though. I had to fight like hell for the 1-0-1 Turkish record, 2-0 English record came fairly easy.

Ahh, missed dD_sT and kaug play a series. England won both times. Huh.

what would make a difference to the balance of this game?

english fleet starting in irish sea? would that be enough to swing it in turkey's favour?