hadn't really noticed this here, I see it at webdip a bit though ...

Yeah, we've got a player (Germany) hurling all kinds of insults and derogatory remarks at other players in this 1000 point game I'm in: http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=2855#gamePanel . You can see it in the public press. And I completely agree with you Butterhead. There's no call for it, regardless of whether or not this player disagrees with the tactics of other players, and it diminishes the morale and quality of the game. It's also an eyesore and just plain tasteless.

just mute them, its here for a reason...

When I was 14 and 15 I use to be rude to my enemies and allies who stabbed me, trying as hard as possible to have a minumum of 2 swear words per sentence when talking to them, so I know what its like to insult and degrade players. However I have matured since then and, unless I am in a bad mood prior to the conversation I try to be as polite as possible.

This has made me consider that any player willing to insult and degrade is either a fan of chainsaw diplomacy or more importantly, the maturity levels I possessed (or lacked) back when I was 15.

We are (or at least most of us are) all adults or young adults, I think it is reasonable to expect us to behave as such.

@G-Man you should discuss ongoing games in the forums, but I recomend you mute Germany unless you need to talk to him.

Can't mute the public press, and if I could, I might miss an important message re: pause, draw... Point taken on discussing ongoing games. I press the 'post' button too fast sometimes. It would be nice if we could edit our posts.

So much uncalled for whining... He was fucking around with you guys in global, y'all took it way too seriously and started acting petulant (not finalizing retreats in a 7-day-phase but replying to global banter? really? choosing never to finalize just to spite someone else... really?) and now you're complaining on the forum. Come on, we've seen actual immature attacks and shit with people like Mythos. Let's not get it mixed up with playful stuff like this.

If I were in that game, I would appreciate the shit out of Germany for actually trying to make a week-long abomination enjoyable with global banter.

Part of maturity, in response to fasces, is to recognize when insults and degradation are thrown around in jest (mature) or not (immature), and to respond with indifference or reciprocated humor (mature) instead of trying to be as annoying as possible in-game by not finalizing out of spite (immature).

You can mute a country, such in your case Germany, in which case anything he says from now on will not be shown unless you unmute him.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=64401#gamePanel

It was done in the above game, (note its webdip not vdip), in which case we got so fed up with France by the end of the second year we had all muted him and entered a 6-way alliance against him.

Once he was eliminated we took the 6-way draw, which was a shame given that before the alliance I was very confident that victory would be mine.

Thanks fasces.

@ President Eden: Some of us are finalizing moves, builds, and retreats as we always have. Others were not finalizing moves, builds, and retreats as they always have before Germany started insulting them. Some players asked nicely if we could speed things up. Two players asked Germany not to use derogatory remarks. Was I supposed to recognize that Germany calling people gay and making gay insinuations as if they were a bad thing was mature? No one deserves to be outright insulted even if they take the full period to finalize. And I mentioned this here because Butterhead thought it was important enough to start a post about it.

I don't like rude players. I sometimes troll the forums but I have kept reasonable in-game etiquette in all cases but one.

'Others were not finalizing moves, builds, and retreats as they always have before Germany started insulting them.'

Wow, really? He playfully suggested you guys finalize and started making fun of the fact that people with one forced retreat took the full 7 days to issue it.

'Two players asked Germany not to use derogatory remarks.'

Like what exactly?

'Was I supposed to recognize that Germany calling people gay and making gay insinuations as if they were a bad thing was mature?'

You read the insinuations entirely on your own, as best I can tell. He played off the fact that you guys took it as an insult.

'No one deserves to be outright insulted even if they take the full period to finalize.'

Good Lord, it's playful banter. An insult implies some intention to damage or harm. Playful banter carries no such intention.

'And I mentioned this here because Butterhead thought it was important enough to start a post about it.'

Again, and? You're still complaining on the forum because someone had the gall to joke around on global and make fun of people taking a week to finalize a forced retreat.

Wow, very defensive and familiar with the game for someone who's not even playing in it PE.

And yeah, speed has been an issue since day one in this game. It's not the first time someone has taken the full phase for a retreat or a build.

France and Egypt asked Germany to stop using derogatory remarks like calling people douches, calling people gay, calling people asses, saying things like, "You likely have homosexual tendencies too, or wear your mommys clothes when she goes out," or "I think Italy is an assistant football coach at a major university...and Turkey just dropped the soap... again."

Maybe you think that's cool PE, but you should respect that there are many of us who don't find that kind of commentary entertaining. Germany signed up for a game with 7-day phases, and if some players want to take those full seven days for any type of phase, that's their right. I can understand the push to speed the game up, but that's not the way to go about it.

A five-minute skim of the global chatter was sufficient for that. And I'd hardly call myself defensive.

If speed's an issue, why would you exacerbate the issue for everyone out of spite to one player? (Not 'you' specifically, as I dunno who France is, but 'you' generally, as in any given person.)

I don't think it's cool, I said personally idgaf and I wouldn't give a fuck if it were me in the game being targeted by the comments. It's just a bunch of stupid jabs (I mean really, douche? ass? gay? what idiot still considers these quality putdowns?). The only reason I bothered to comment at all is because someone came to the forum about it and suggested that the community should adopt procedures to prohibit harmless banter in games, which I would certainly be opposed to doing.

Personally, I can't speak for those who are holding back on readying their orders. I can tell you it's hard for those of us who are not holding back on readying our orders to ready sometimes, as we still need to diplomacize with those players who are taking their time.

It's not that we can't take the putdowns, it's that they're disrespectful of other players and no one should have to play in that environment. Games I've played in where no one has been constantly insulting the other players have taken on a more fun tone as well and been a real blast on the public and private message boards. This is dragging the morale down in this game, making everyone cranky, and actually working against speeding up the game, which Germany is pushing for, since players who are tired of being insulted by Germany are admittedly taking even longer than they admittedly need to, in retaliation for Germany's insults. Plus, there are many other ways to make the points that Germany is making without actually insulting anyone.

Well, no one's arguing that Germany's methods are efficient. :p I agree with the fact that he's doing it wrong, because his putdowns suck.

I would just hate for that game to be the impetus for legitimately enjoyable banter being banned from games is all. Otherwise I've no dog in the fight.

There is a difference between legitimately enjoyable banter(which I believe Germany was INITIALLY attempting to do), and the kind of remarks he is making now, especially after France called him out. One would think that if it was "banter" than when someone announced that they took offense to such comments, Germany would be mature enough to stop and find another way to joke around, but instead he got even more rude and offensive. I do take offense to what the German player is saying, as I am sure other members of the game do(and have stated that they do)... therefore it IS an issue PE...

I don't see a problem. Nor do I see a problem with Germany's antics in aforesaid game. so +1 PresidentEden.

Really Kaner? You think it's okay to insult other players and to ignore the other players when they tell you they're offended by your insults? Is it okay if Germany calls someone a nigger? A motherfucker? Do you just see the insults Germany uses as acceptable? As what's acceptable differs from person to person and some people may be just as offended by being called an ass or being told they wear a dress. I can tell you this kind of thing would not fly in many moderated forums around the web and that anyone who continued to carry on after others protested would be kicked out. I'm not saying Germany should be kicked out, but I agree with Butterhead's initial post.

you are all idiots, freaks, and **** *peeep peep peeep!!!! yes im serious, f*** you all and *** peeeeeep!

come on guys seriously, let the kids play ;)

Bad standards Rox. You don't see players behaving like this in a chess tournament or at school. In fact they get kicked out or expelled for it if they won't control themselves. Why should this be acceptable in Diplomacy, it's certainly not like it's a necessary part of the game. If allowed to fester and grow, as it apparently has been lately, it will ultimately only lower the quality of players, quality of game banter, and reputation of the site as a premiere site for Diplomacy.

Just throwing in my 2phone cents.

IMO, anything is fair in-game. This is Diplomacy, a game that people would lie, bribe, insult, and "cheat" in order to win. The game was made to encourage players to use every available means in order to win. If a player can make another player act rashly by insulting them, that's quite possibly good play.

That said, out of game is completely different. We are all members of this community and on the forums, we need to respect each other and others opinions or sour the whole community.

So, my solution: everyone needs to take a big chill pill in game and realize that people might not even mean what they say, but are just saying it to get you to do a certain action. If we all realize this, perhaps we can all remember its just a game too.


Side note: I doubt many players on here or webdip would call me an asshole or anything like that, yet I've insulted people intake for just the reason I outlined above. Does it mean I really mean those things? No, definitely not.

I've said a lot, but I do want to comment on what you said Drano. I think that's a good point in general, but cheating isn't really condoned or allowed, just as injuring a player to win isn't either. And the advantage gained from a continuous barrage of insults and rude and crude banter is so negligible that I have to ask, is that really what you want to see in gameplay here? Can't insults also be handed out in a tasteful manner to achieve the same effect, like "Drano, you used to be a good player!," or, "Being Russia's lapdog has really made you make some poor decisions." Anyway, thanks for hearing me out.

Gman- notice I said "cheat"in with quotes. What I mean by that is players would try to look at other players orders as they were being written in face to face diplomacy and stuff like that. All shady things, but within the rules.

As for insults, I agree. Mostly. Usually tasteful insults work, but sometimes you really want to make someone mad and attack you, possibly to let a hidden ally strike them while they're angry and so that they leave a good defensive position. There ARE times that direct, tasteless insults work. I'm nit saying all the time, or even most of the time, but there are definitely times.

See I agree with a lot of what you are saying drano, except the targets of Germany's rants are those players that are nearing there deaths anyways, and have no major alliances. Italy, Turkey, and France.
"but are just saying it to get you to do a certain action. If we all realize this, perhaps we can all remember its just a game too."
This is what Germany's insults initially were meant to do, but people, myself included, took offense, and confronted him. instead of trying a different method, he began insulting them even more and now insults anyone who confronts him about it. France told him that if the insults continued, he would intentionally take the full phase, the OPPOSITE of what Germany wanted, so obviously the tactic failed... so why continue?

Who knows why he continues? We'll have to ask once we know who it is.

All I'm saying is that its a viable tactic and trying to ban it wouldn't be right. Of course, its also perfectly OK for people to be insulted and team up against the insulting person. Its a risky strategy.

but sometimes the strategy works, although it tends to work more often when the insults are witty and humourous.

I just called someone a shit-for-brains. But he called me a dickhead.

Thats because you prefer to throw games instead of forcing draws.

Not always - I like to shake up my playing style from game to game. But yes there is a certain satisfaction in knowing it irks you.

So how often do you end up getting the "retard" play style?

Oh, and before you answer that, keep in mind the objective of this game is to "gain 18 supply centres, and if failing that, to obtain a draw" as stated by the rulebook. Then tell me how your playstyle tries to achieve that goal in any way, shape, or form.

Bad standards Rox. You don't see players behaving like this in a chess tournament or at school. <---
this is an online game, anonymousity.... just get used to it, press the mute button and chill ;)
and further like drano says sometime it works ;)

Don't worry people. I am not Germany in that game. :-)

we know, diplomat- 'cause you've never had more than 100 . :)

Oh snap.

@ Rox: It may work once, but it becomes pointless when it is repeated over and over and over and over again, and has actually just been working against what Germany stated his intentions were here. It is also unnecessary in public press, as it is offending more than just the intended players. Plus, there are more clever and tactful ways to insult someone than to badger them repeatedly with juvenile-level name-calling. And again, is this what you want to engage in when you play Diplomacy? I know there are a lot of us that don't and would prefer the standards of gameplay be up to the level you find on other good sites (of all kinds) around the web.

Hey Raro, check my total points now. 142!

I know, it just fell off the toungue