But Caerus, been and bean have distinctly different sounds and yes been does sound very similar to bin, almost homophonic. I think the difference is that the English ear is accustomed from birth to hear two primary forms of each vowel that are very different from their Latin counterparts.

Regional accents massively effect English vowel sounds as well. I would personally have 'been' and 'bean' as the near-homophones, neither sounding remotely like 'bin' - while a kiwi would pronounce 'been' somewhat similarly to my 'bin' and the other two entirely differently.

hEY @jECE I watched the carioca girl video... I don't get what you mean... in 0:8 secs she doesn't say "Nova Yorkie" at all.

@Caerus, I was talking about the (International) Phonetic (Alphabet) pronunciation, yes. Apologies for not being clear before.

>You are saying the english would "Be" is pronounced with a "i" sound and that the "ee" sound is the "i" sound<

That's not what I meant... I will try to simplify:

Be = bi/bee (depends on accent I guess), as referenced numerous times before
ee = i, as seen here: https://www.macmillandictionary.com/pronunciation/british/ee

"ee" and "e" = both are VARIATIONS of a single vowel: "i".

> Latin base phonetics do not sound like either of their English counterparts.<

That sums up the entire debate.

At least we have saved the thread!

But yeah, definitely the extended i-sound is still, well, an extended i-sound. It also matches what we would name the letter 'E' when, say, going through the alphabet (and similarly does not match the named 'I', homophonic with 'eye'), but it's definitely the base i-sound, extended, rather than something entirely different.

>https://www.macmillandictionary.com/pronunciation/british/ee

"ee" and "e" = both are VARIATIONS of a single vowel: "i".

Only if you're British. Please note even your URL indicates that as a British thing. Most definitely not the majority of English speakers in the world. 350 million Americans definitely exceeds the population of Great Britain.

>Only if you're British<

Nope, applies for Americans too. Here's your own source: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/be?s=t

be = [bee; unstressed bee, bi]

According to the International Phonetic Alphabet, both "bee" and "bi" sounds come from the vowel "i", despite the word itself ("be") being written with the vowel "e".

Both the American Department of Education *and* the American Academy of Arts and Letters subscribe to the International Phonetic Alphabet... I don't get what you are challenging as the facts are quite clear: the English language has vowels that sound like other vowels.

It's not a "wrong" form of speaking, it's how you speak your language and that's perfectly fine. But you *do* speak vowels differently from what they sound like from a Romance (actually, international) perspective.

On the I agree. My point is that English long vowels do not sound anything like other English long or short vowels. But, as I agreed, they definitely do not resemble the Latin pronunciations for themselves. But then again, German 's' sounds like 'z', 'w' sounds like 'v'. Every language has its own phonetics and none are wrong but the *exceptions* are what make a language tough.

As far as what the various American education associations accept, well, they also teach new math. I haven't been to school since the 80s. :-)

Enriador: Well she doesn't end it with a hard 'k'. There's clearly a vowel sound after the 'k'.

Do you hear it with the other three?

>Every language has its own phonetics and none are wrong<

Every language has its own sounds, these sounds are translated as phonetic symbols, and these symbols make up the International Phonetic Alphabet.

> I haven't been to school since the 80s<

Learning never ceases! Learned a couple of new things in this very thread.

@JECE, I can't hear the vowel sound after the "k". Perhaps it's my ear?

I didn't hear them yet, I jumped on the last one because I was quite intrigued at hearing a carioca speak "Nova Iorqueeeeee".

What I meant was back in the 70s, when I was in grade school and middle school, we were taught with the Merriam Webster long and short symbols.

I see. Nowadays most Western countries teach *something* about IPA in high school.

A Google search shows numerous sources citing that IPA is *not* taught in US schools.

American who went to high school in 01-05 here. IPA was not taught. Brother in law went to high school, graduated in 2011, no IPA taught. Long and short symbols still rule the day near me at least (Chicago).

Enriador, what you need to remember is, this is the US. We kinda pride ourselves on *not* doing things other countries do. Imperial system anyone? :P

sad lady said laid
neat bear head near

How do pronounce Han Solo's first name

No better example of why BREXIT was a good idea could be put forward than this thread. Europeans looking to tell English speaking folks how to pronounce their own language. Taken in stride, this place has some seriously funny comedic value. But then Chumbles rings in with the argument for mediocre Dip players lecturing experienced players how playing like trash is a good thing.

>We kinda pride ourselves on *not* doing things other countries do<

Very true @drano, very true. You live in splendid isolation!

>Europeans looking to tell English speaking folks how to pronounce their own language<

You are joking, right? If you are, that's not a funny joke, but good try.

In case you aren't: read the thread and check that nobody asked anyone to pronounce anything as if one way was superior/more correct than another. We are just debating how vowels are pronounced differently by different languages. ;)

>How do pronounce Han Solo's first name<

Phonetically: "Han" I guess. Watched the last movie and different characters spoke it differently.

But is it Hand without the D or haunt without the T?

Option #2. Though Lando says "HEN" (as in "can").

"But then Chumbles rings in with the argument for mediocre Dip players lecturing experienced players how playing like trash is a good thing." WHAT!? I said no such thing... hell, I don't understand what that means! What I thought I'd said was that everyone plays the game the way they want to... and that mere length of time playing the game doesn't give additional weight to an opinion. Including mine.

"everyone plays the game the way they want to."

The OP is clearly a metagamer or anon wouldn't bother him. If that is everyone playing as they like, then why do we have rules at all?

Perhaps, YCHTT, but he isn't going to be successful in persuading the majority of us that anon games should be discarded. He can opt to play in games thay aren't anon, which is how I believe it should be.

And players who carry grudges when they're stabbed will inevitably run out of players they can ally with. The guy's compounding his error by trying to impose his own moral paradigm on a game and a large, disparate bunch of generally intelligent people. Good luck with that! It ain't gonna work

Agreed except he blatantly admits to breaking the meta rules. And there should be a real punishment for that.

@YouCan't, hit "Mods", open a new thread and denounce the blatant metagamer yourself. =)

Not worth it. I was just refuting Chamblee argument that this was a valid different way to play. It's different but in no way legit.

Crumbles. Stupid autocorrect.

Damn it! Chumbles! Quit fixing it you farking phone!

YouCan'tHandleTheTruth: Please don't waste Oli's time. Kingmaker Speech didn't admit to breaking metagaming rules. Please review the rules yourself:
https://vdiplomacy.net/rules.php#MetaGaming

I would also ask you to please not goad your fellow users and to be nicer to your fellow users. This is getting out of hand.