France v Austria:

This variant is very favourable for the Austrian player as long as he knows what he is doing.
The most important supply centres to fight for are the Italian centres, Tunis, Munich, Berlin and St. Petersburg. All other centres are well within the power sphere of one power or the other and there is no use trying to contest them.

Munich and Berlin are Austrian 100%, Tunis and St. Petersburg are Austrian 100%. (long term)
The real imbalance lies in the short term, where Austria can take, and deny France the important SCs for a significant time.

Austria S 1901 A Vie - Tyr, F Tri - Alb, A Bud - Gal. Venice is not needed because it is important to get a fleet to Tunis at the same time that France does, ie. 1902. If Tunis is lost too early, it is hard to bottle up the Ionian.

France S 1901 F Bre - Mid, A Par - Pic, A Mar - Bur. There is no need to take Portugal too early as it is a waste of move tempo. You must focus on taking Munich, because once you take and fortify it with Kie/Ruh/Bur, Austria cannot get in, whereas if you are slow, Austria will get in and the converse is true for you.

Austria F 1901 A Tyr - Mun (bounce probably), A Gal - War, F Alb - Gre. Alb - Gre to ensure you have 2 builds, because falling behind in builds is very bad and you will be overwhelmed by superior forces. Taking Warsaw is the precursor to taking Berlin in 1902. Build A Vie, A Bud to continue your conquest of Germany.

France F 1901 A Bur - Mun (bounce probably), A Pic - Bel, F Mid - Spa. Spain will have to go south to contest Tunis, while your armies must hold off the Austrians. Build A Par, F Bre. Building F Mar is not useful at the moment; you need to take 3 supply centres this year because that is what Austria will get.

Austria S 1902 F Gre - Ion, A Tyr - Mun, A War - Sil, A Vie - Boh, A Bud - Rum. Your mission is to take Sevastapol, Munich and Berlin this year,and stop France getting St. Petersburg and Tunis.

France S 1902 F Spa - WMS, A Par - Bur, A Bur - Ruh, A Bel - Hol, F Bre - Eng. No time to lose, you have to take Kiel before Austria takes that too, and if Kiel falls, then Austria wins. You must also get fleets into Denmark and beyond to force St. Petersburg and try to get Berlin.

Austria F 1902 F Ion - Tun (bounce), A Rum - Sev, A Boh s Mun, A Sil - Ber. Three builds, F Tri, A Vie, A Bud. Fleets must start coming out now or France will overwhelm you with his 2 fleets per year.

France F 1902 F WMS - Tun (bounce), F Eng - Nth. and either support yourself to Kiel or force Munich. I would take Kiel because it's better to be safe here. Here you must go with just 2 builds, as with Bur/Ruh/Kie you blockade Austria already. You only need F Mar, F Bre. Moving to North Sea would allow you to stop Austria from stealing St. Petersburg. If Austria takes St. Petersburg, he will win before you can retake it.

From now on, Austria can definitely take Moscow, Warsaw, Berlin, Munich, Venice and anything behind them, for 16 centres. France can definitely take Tunis, Norway, and everything behind them. StP, Rom and Nap are the only ones that are really contested, but as it is easier for Austria to pour armies through Venice, and fleets through Ionian, into the Italian boot, Austria would win more easily.



More on the analysis of other 1v1 battles. And I hope we can find some more balanced 1v1 variants!

Re: President Eden, the key is not the sea. The key is when to start the sea expansion. Too early and you get overwhelmed by armies; too late and you cannot stop the fleets.

A solid understanding of stalemate lines is crucial too.

I don't see how Austria can hope to hold Italy from a strong French naval presence. At the very least France can delay the capture of Italy until it gets strong enough to secure Scandinavia and retake Berlin via Baltic/Prussia. I don't see how Austria can simultaneously hold Berlin/Munich, contest Italy and draw up a stalemate line through Prussia/Livonia/Moscow in time to keep France at bay.

St. Petes really isn't a critical SC since France will always be able to get it.

For Austria, the key really is getting to and holding Munich and Berlin. Tunis is usually a lost cause so they become the winning centres. But France does have the advantage, surely. If France plays it right they likely won't lose.

@Gobbledydook: use your strategy as Austria and I'll use Edens as France. I bet you Edens will win...

that said I have a new tactic for Austria that I am dieing to try out...

President Eden: Let's play a game of FvA then.

@Jimbozig: I disagree. While France can get it in the long run, because of the north v south advantage, it is difficult for France to field so many units in the North in a short time. Austria's battle there would be to hold off the French there for as long as possible.

Yes, I suppose you're right. I always think too much about the endgame only that I forget that 18 caqn be captured fast by breaching in non-traditional places.

I played a FvA with President Eden; France lost by a large margin.

^Confirming. (We cancelled the game so as not to skew the records.)

Conclusion: Original hypothesis wrong; France cannot effectively pressure the Ionian Sea and St. Petersburg simultaneously as well as Austria can. You either have to ignore the north entirely to break ION, or ignore the south to get to Scandinavia first. I think the latter might be a winning line for France, but the former most certainly is not.

http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=1722

Austria made a few mistakes, I want to explore this line further.

I need to return to studying for finals after this go-round, so if someone else could take over (or if we could wait on further testing until sometime tomorrow) that would be wonderful.

Can I get in on some of these test games?

http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=1723

Sure. It appears that the Northern opening gets a fleet into Baltic too fast for Austria to respond.

You have until S03 to get into Prussia, Silesia, Tyrolia, Bohemia, Berlin, and Munich.

glhf

Anyhow, studying time, good luck with testing!

Eh actually Sil, Boh s Mun, Pru s Ber can stop me, but then I'd just convoy to Livonia and you still have a headache. I think the odds of Austria holding the North are low, but they exist nonetheless. You just need to guess correctly for long enough until you can spare more units.

Hmm I found an improvisation in Spring 1903. That move, France orders A Hol s Kie, A Kie s Bur - Ruh. I was wondering what would happen if Mun - Bur/Ruh, Sil - Mun, Ber s Sil - Mun (or Ber - Kie), that can delay France for 1 turn at least. Bur is a surefire 1 turn block, while Ruhr is more risky but can block for longer.

Also F Tun - WMS, F Ion - Tun may be better than securing Rome and Naples. Of course France could guess correctly and order F Tys - WMS (or he could have chosen WMS instead of Tys last move) but at least the threat of WMS puts a lot of pressure on France. F Tri seems essential here too.

I need to test this out, but it may turn out to be whether France guesses wrong in the South or Austria guesses wrong in the North.

Hmm turns out Silesia must move to Prussia, otherwise Bal can force Silesia to support hold Berlin indefinitely. Still needs lots of guesses on Austria's part in the North.

Another point: Austria should be prepared to give up Munich, but not Berlin. This gives good chances for drawing.

Hmm rethinking F Tri in W 02. On one hand A Tri would ensure that Ber/Mun can be held, on the other hand that would lose Tunis.

I honestly don't think there's an effective counter to F Baltic. Berlin can be held without Munich, but the amount of units involved (Mos/War S Lvn, Pru/Sil S Ber, Boh/Tyl H) makes it rather difficult. And anything less sees armies flung everywhere.

Hmm yeah getting all that in place by S 1903 is impossible.
So proven, France wins, but not by opening south.

Now let's move on to another topic, the seemingly more even matchup Germany v Italy
Anyone wants to test with me?

If you want to play IvsG I'm in, but you gotta know I played many games on it already... however it's the most equilibrated 1on1 in my advice (besides lepanto...)

Also, as we're wrapping up FvA, the obvious question remains: Why is Austria faring better overall in the stats to this point?

As for IvG, in my experience the main battles have been in Austria and Iberia/MAO. Austria is a dead heat, Iberia/MAO should be an easy Italian win on account of the slowness of deploying German seapower.

Because no-one thought of Bre-Ech before?

I'm thinking of abandoning Mun/Ber,and blitzing Stp/Tun and get 18 before France can push Austria back.

I played it against fasces before. I don't think I remembered it on subsequent playthroughs.

I'm looking forward to seeing how that works, but I'm not so sure it would. We'll see in the play test.

Just tested the new strategy. The Frenchman can simply alter his strategy to account for having Germany conceded in exchange for pressure in St. Petersburg -- the French opening is flexible enough, and Austria has to announce its intentions before France has to choose whether to focus on Baltic or St. Petersburg.

Honestly, I don't think the French northern opening can be defeated. Again, perhaps I'm too quick to declare such a big statement, but I see no counter.

Let me try again.

x_x just found out I apparently am supposed to meet the lady friend in 20 minutes, and it's a 15 minute drive

I'll go through the first year then I really need to run

After doing a brief map analysis of the GvI matchup, I that the most important centres to contest are Vienna and Budapest; they will decide the game.
Looking at the stats Germany wins quite a bit more, so let us focus on how Italy can defend Austria from the Germans.

And...
Just did a sandbox trial of FvA where Austria opens to Piedmont S1902. That move I find is very strong as it forces France to guess whether, and how, to cover Marseilles. If Austria succeeds in denying France the F Mar, France has a really hard time as Austria builds up to 4 fleets. By threatening Marseilles, it also ties down Burgundy and slows down the French. Also because builds of F Bre must go south because of the lack of F Mar, Austria gets a freer rein in the North. I'd like to try this variant again...

President Eden I sent a game invite to you, it's FvA. I want to try out Piedmont.

http://vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=1822
Password is marseilles.

Testers are welcome.
The opening in question is as follows:
S1901
France par - pic, mar - bur, bre - ech
Austria vie - tyr, bud - tri, tri - alb
F 1901
France pic - bel, bur - mun (bounce), ech - lon
Austria tyr - mun, tri - ven, alb - gre
W 1901
France +f mar, +a par
Austria +a vie, +f tri
S 1902
France bur - ruh, par - bur. bel - hol, ech - nth, mar - gol
Austria VEN - PIE, tri - alb, gre - ion, vie - gal, tyr - mun

Ven - Pie is the new idea I came up with, and I wish to try it out.

Ahh, sorry, I missed the PM. I've only sparsely been checking into this site the past couple days.

Southern opening tested. Piedmont S 1902 gives France huge troubles.
The problem is France has to guess between covering with (A) Bur, (B) GoL, (C) self-bouncing in Mar, or (D) leave it open.
So France has 4 realistic choices.
Italy has some choices as to how to use the Pie + Mun threat.
(1) Pie s GoL - Mar, Mun - Kie
(2) Pie s Bur - Mar, Mun - Bur
(3) Pie - Mar, Mun - Kie

(1) beats A, B (more), C (more)
(2) beats A (more), B, C (more)
(3) beats D only but if it works, France is as good as dead.

So we see how France is stuck in an uncomfortable position, having to either cover Marseilles and risk the big chance that he doesn't build in Mar, or not cover it and get completely destroyed if Austria goes to Mar.

gameID=1903 for successful usage of Piedmont strategy against French northern opening.

We have to do a formal proof of the result France and Austria both open south, but I expect Austria to lose. So this might just become a coin-flip seeing who guesses which way to open right.

Proven: Opening to Piedmont is favourable for Austria.
Now I wish to see what would happen if France bounced Piedmont...