I thing the West coast should be relatively fleet-free and the Iron Islands should start with three. Maybe Lannisport should be it. The Reach and The North should be all armies. I still think that The Riverlands should be neutral garrisons. I'd be interested on how you want to handle rivers. I like the idea of the Spice Road and sea lanes from the Mongol game on the lab. I imagine a territory for the Trident that would not be a SC but would be the meeting of 4 rivers and the intersection of the roads. The Vale would move to seize it at the opening as The North went for the Twins and the Westmen went for Riverrun. How do you see King's Landing and Dragonstone being handled? I think a Roma rule for King's Landing makes sense.

I think it is Jaime Lannister.....but a sisterfucking jerk, yes. But he kind of redeems himself later. He has saved more lives than I can imagine being possible for anyone else.

Is there any reasonable way to handle The Others or Essos?

Is partial Fog of War possible? Could the land beyond The Wall be shrouded so that the strength and movements of a Wightwalkers army is a mystery until they breach The Wall?

Is Winter Coming?

"sisterfucking?" ... really? Is she hot?

excuse me?
My thread got fucked down, but i opened it. viewthread=8669#8669
however, i can copy paste it here and go on with this one thread:
the map is pretty straightforward, and the division of provinces can be done accordingly to the SoF&I history without altering gameplay. I have to ask about powers and time:
- Pre-baratheons revolt (9 powers, 7 hauses+ Greyjoy + Targaryen)
- 5 Kings War (5 powers + some neutral armies in places like dorne for example)
- Crow's Fest time, with all the messy powers (Stannis, Tommen, Dorne, Arryn, the Reach)

about your ideas: yes, imo ironmans have all fleets starting (3), while lannisters 1 and the reach 1 also (down in the Arbor). And the north have 1 fleet also (White harbor) but in the east coast.
I don't know the rome and the roadway rule, so i can give n opinion on that, but clearly, in the riverlands are not a power, they should be the main battlefield and a very strategic point.
About the rivers, i though leaving some of them, but only the most omportant ones (~3-4 in the whole map) GreenFork, BlackWater and the Mander. Dragonstone is an SC with only 2 seas nearby (blackwater bay and the narrow sea), and a home fleet for whomever controls it (Be the targarynes, or Stannis)

About the Twins, note that you don't have to get throug them to get to King's landing, only to get to the Western Riverlands and the Lannisters place. So north can go east to the vale and to Salpans (another bridge to cross the greenfork) and to king's landing. I though about making those 3 rivers unpasable unless supported by a fleet, supported by an army on the other side, or convoyed, or using a bridge (Highgarden, Kings' Landing, Twins, and Saltpans) Or going arounf the river.

the others can be a neutral army which all turns try to move pass the wall. As long as there is a "nightwatch" army in the wall, they won't pass, but if the army is not there, INVASION!

@rancher, the story begins to a degree with the discovery that all of the Queen's children are the spawn of her brother and not her husband.
http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/18200000/Cersei-Lannister-game-of-thrones-18214856-864-486.jpg

@Daiichi, Can you have neutral armies that move?

In Renaissance Italy, you have to have a majority of the SC and you have to have Rome in order to win. In the Mongolian game on LAB, there are roads and "trading Lanes" that allow double moves along them.

I vote War of the Five Kings era but without Stannis. So Robert the Usurper is dead and the Starks, Lannisters, Greyjoys, Crazy Lyssa, Renly, Mace Tyrell or the Dornish have to conquer.

The Targaryian Whore and her Horselord's Horde might be too messy.

I see The North as an all armies power. Having The Neck be a way to bottle them up seems appropriate to me.

Aren't the Greyjoys among the 7 houses? It's Dorne that is not one of the 7 kingdoms. The North, The Westlands (Lannisters), The Vale, The Riverlands, Iron Islands, The Stormlands (Barathians) and The Reach.

Do you make King's Landing neutral or give it to the Lannisters? Give Renly Dragonstone?

Since I think we agree that The Riverlands should become the central battlefield, having all of the Trident Rivers with crossings, like Dutch Revolt, could be interesting. I advocate for a funneling effect at a non-SC territory call "The Trident" where the rivers and roads come together. I see a river narrowing a northern approach and another river narrowing a western approach and then an open plan leading to King's Landing, so that the Vale would want to seize and hold it to frustrate others.

I like the Roma rule.

About the factions: We agree to have North, Lannisters, Vale, Pyke, and some other 2 at least like Reach and Storm's End. Dorne can have it's part, too. We can give it a time that does not appear in the books, also. About the rivers, are you going to make all the three forks, navigable? The road rule is only appealing if there are many small provinces. If not, i don't see the need of it.
The north is IMO 2 armies 1 fleet, and the fleet, being in the wrong coast, won't help against greyjoy invasion, but can help taking gull town or even dragonstone. But it will take a time to get the fleet fown there (2 years at least)

I agree about letting the Targy out, they're too far away anyway.

do you have msn or gtalk, or any other IM? so we can talk live

I have ym but keeping it here might be better for others to jump in.

I imagine lots of little provinces. Westros is supposed to be the size of South America. I imagine the North as being the strongest but with their SCs spread out so that one army gets past The Neck and they get tied in knots. I'm fine with the rivers not being navigable, if you prefer, but the Forks could give a Dutch Revolt character to the middle of the board. The roads, I think, could give an interesting effect. The Lannisters lost Riverrun because they had to cover the Kingsroad to prevent Robb from blowing past them to King's Landing.

What about instead of a road rule (which on the other hand i don't know how to do), we just make a province that is twice as long. That way you could move faster by that province than by it's surroundings.
I don't talk about leaving the forum completely, but about having a quick talk and then get here the ideas we got in IM.
aboutthe size South america has way less provinces in the WWIV than in the conquest of south america. Samely, Europe is trice as big in clasical than in World Diplomacy. It's not about the actual size, but about the relative size. I can imagine each kingdom having around 4 or 5 provinces. ie: King's Landing, Dragonstone, MaidenPool, Harrenhal, King's Wood, Stony Sept, Deep Den, Casterly Rock, Riverrun, The crag, Silverhill & Crackehall, making a 2-3 provinces high line from east to west.
Or Dorne divided into Sunspear, Salt Shores, Yronwood, Starfall, King's Pass
Or the Vale divided into: The Fingers, The Vale, Gulltown, The Eyrie, and the Bloody Gate (being the eyrie a very small province in the middle of the Vale, thus inexpugnable)
If you have a better idea, let me know. Of course, the north would have more provinces, and more scattered SC (Winter's coming indeed). But the would also be bigger, so in the en it willl have like: The Wall + The gift + Last heart + stony shore + Deepwood + winterfel + White Harbor + Barrowlands + moat cailin + Greywater + Flint's Finfer + The twins (not all homeland, of course) And SC's in like 5 of them (there are 12). So 4 SC's in the whole north, and 1 SC more in the twins. Resembles italy?

You are right. Absolutely, long provinces along the road routes accomplish everything I would want and avoid the problems I see with mechanics.

I found this for whatever it might be worth:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/15386/variant-diplomacy-using-agot-board

i have seen that already, and i don't like it, because that map wasn't designed for dip. But we can use it as a province-measure guide. Do you want bigger provinces than the map (less numer) or smaller ones, in a bigger number? or that number and size (with some adjustments, of course)

Of course, the barrels and crowns thing is a stupidity, but maybe we can add castles and sieges.

Also, they suggest a 5-players: Stark, Lannisters, Greyjoy, Baratheon, Tyrell. It seems to me that we can make it to, at least, 7 players as in standard dip. Let's recall that in aGoT there are lots of different interesets...

It didn't seem terribly useful, but I found it. 7 players sounds doable. 7 Kingdoms minus Tullies plus Dorne. Give Renly Dragonstone and Lannisters King's Landing or make King's Landing neutral? I presume we're talking build anywhere.

Those territories are way too big. I think I've probably made my contribution and am a spent force. I like the idea of having longer territories along the roads to speed movements along them and give that game play effect. I suggest using the Dutch Revolt map as a model for The Riverlands. I suggest that the Riverlands be neutral with several garrisoned SCs. I suggest a Rome rule for King's Landing.

The whole dutch revolt for just the riverlands?? That's a fucking lots of territories for just one kingdom...
Long roads: checkmark
Rome Rule: checkmark
Riverlands Neutral with neutral standing: posible checkmark (depending on nº of players)
Build anywhere? I don't like it, Lannisters will never be able to build in iron islands. But we can make build in home + some certain SCs (for example, all powers are able to build home and riverlands)

I have made a quick division of territories, from the neck down to the rivers. Also marked where SC's would be, and which power will they belong to (Note that riverlands may be neutrals altogether. In that case, i will take some SC's out of the riverlands)
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/7119/dypt.jpg

I just meant Riverland should have a rivers and bridges quality like the middle of Dutch Revolt.

ok, i didn't kew the dutch revolt map, i have checked it, and it's great. Also, the Spanish SC can resemble the Eyrie.